The Blessings of Simplicity

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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lpearlmom
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by lpearlmom » Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:49 am

Doing okay?
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 169
GW:160



do you know when the greatest moments in life are? right now. 🧚🏻








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Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:43 pm

Thanks for asking, Linda. I took a pause because of everything that was happening. Tom had a medical scare that turned out to be a scare, but he had some treatment that put him at high enough risk for COVID that I sent him packing to the house he and his siblings now own after his mother's death. He's be home the first weekend in December. College is an oppressive environment. Both of our college kids are home and enjoying the freedom to walk out the front door without a mask on. I ended up doing all the raking which was a big task.

And my weight? It was 220.0 yesterday. The fasting was a temporary fix. I came on the board this morning because I have yet another idea for weight loss. Years ago, I read that one way to be successful at something where you are failing is to use what you learn where you are being successful.

Well, we are successful with finances. We are in the lucky group of people whose income has stayed the same while expenses have dropped. Lower gas bills. Almost non existent dry cleaning. Food out for Tom at work is zero.

We are saving a lot right now and were also saving pre-pandemic. We are frugal, almost absurdly so. We were laughing the other day looking at pictures from ten years ago in which Tom is wearing the same shirt he often wears today. We drive our cars until we donate them, although we traded in the Sienna for $700 when Tommy got a job.

And yet, yesterday, after reading an article about a Chinese game called Mahjong, I went on Amazon and decided to buy a game which costs $96. I debated about it a few days but yesterday morning made the order.

I never could stomach a budget. It just made no sense to me. How are you supposed to estimate the cost of gas? A few years ago, I told Tom that I wanted to track our expenses as exactly as possible so that we could create a budget. I tried then having the budget amount next to the actual amount with variance. It just seemed like so much work when you can look at what you spend and adjust. In fact, when I first started tracking expenses, I showed Tom that we had spent $400 in food out in one month. He got upset about that. I then had each of us use a different card. After separating his expenditures from mine, I showed him that he was spending about $375 per month and I was spending about $25 per month. He adjusted accordingly.

Now I have a system down that is so easy it takes only a few hours per month. For example, we use one credit card for gas, so all I need do to track gas expenditures is write down the total for that card. This system really helps with planning for retirement because we have such a good handle on expenses. I also have separated out the kids' expenses into one category per kid so we can see how little we spend on our children who are out of college.

Yesterday, when buying that Mahjong game, it dawned on me that I have been attempting the dietary equivalent of keeping a budget. I have tried all sorts of ways to naturally restrict what I eat: fasting, following habits for how I eat, following NoS... Sooner or later, they have all failed.

I realized that, with tracking expenditures, the desire for those marginal purchases just evaporated. I came to realize what was important for me in spending, and Tom just adjusted his spending. We feel no economic pressure even though he thinks he may be part of a layoff next year. We are preparing for that.

What is the dietary equivalent of tracking expenditures? It is just writing down what I eat. I have tried this in the past but made it too complicated. I have tried to track time or whether I felt hunger or satisfaction after eating or how many calories. No. I need something simple, like the simple tracking method I have for expenditures. Simplicity is KEY because it is sustainable. I have long known that. That is why the title of my journal here is "The Blessings of SImplicity".

For tracking what I eat, I created a one page format to fit in my planner. It has seven days in rows to fit the entire length of the page and then three columns per day to fit the width of the page. The columns represent morning, afternoon and evening. I am definitely one to eat unconsciously and now have to remember if I snarf down some of the Oreos that I don't even like that the kids bought. An Oreo is definitely the equivalent of a marginal purchase.

With expenditures, we have a monthly savings goal. If I make that, then I can spend what I want or save for an unexpected expenditure or a desired expenditure in the future. With food tracking, I am going to aim for losing one pound per week. The mindset is now changed from "How much food can I eat?" if I follow this or that rule (don't eat until a certain time per day, no sweets during the week, etc.) to "Is this food what I really want?" Here's the big draw for this approach: I can eat what I want just like I can spend what I want. It's an illusion, of course. I can't spend what I want, but I sure feel like I can. That is the feeling I want to have with eating. I want to know I can have that coffee ice cream if I really want it now. It's a wonderful feeling to be confident in your finances. I want that same feeling to be confident in my eating.

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lpearlmom
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by lpearlmom » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:19 pm

Hi Kathleen! Great to hear from you & glad you’re hanging in there. I really admire how much restraint you have with money. Doc & I are much better these days but we do love to splurge now and then. Have you heard of healthy wager? I’ve been looking at it for some extra motivation and it occurred to me that’d it’d be especially good for people who really hate wasting money. https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/make-mo ... althywage/

I’m thinking about joining after thanksgiving! 😊
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 169
GW:160



do you know when the greatest moments in life are? right now. 🧚🏻








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Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:23 pm

Hi Linda,
TBH, we may have focused too much on financial well-being and not enough on physical well-being. We have four kids to launch. Anne is independent, Tommy is close (should get his own apartment in the next several months), Katie graduates in May, and Ellie has at least two more years of college. We are over the hump financially with only one more term of two in college.

Now what for us? Our focus is shifting to health. I think I would shy away from the bet website for two reasons: first, I don’t want an end date for my weight loss goal because I want an overhaul in how I live; and second, we have already focus too much in finances.

I was walking a lot and stopped mostly to rake leaves but now as of this week I am walking ten miles per week and setting up an in home exercise program. I was waiting for the pandemic to end. That was just plain dumb. I just woke up to the reality that it may be a long while before I can be back in the gym.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:54 am

It would be a relief if gyms were open now because exercising in the heat probably doesn't sound like an option. I have a friend in Minneapolis and I know she is drained already this summer. Hope you are well.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

April
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by April » Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:31 pm

"one way to be successful at something where you are failing is to use what you learn where you are being successful."

WOW - this stopped me in my tracks! I realized I am very successful at my job and my "house-wife-ing" and being a mom because I am very CONSISTENT PLANNER.

BUT for some reason when it comes to weight loss attempts, I am a chronic over-thinker, plan-hopper, constantly tweaking and become OCD about my current "plan" and when it doesn't work immediately (impatient much?). I then feel like a failure before giving it a fair chance. This honestly has me stumped - how can I be so on point and successful in other areas but don't plan/act the same with this whole weight loss thing? I fully realized there would be a learning curve when I changed jobs/careers three years ago and was patient with myself in the beginning until I mastered the new skills. I know that being a mom and housewife is still (at 50) a constant learning and growing process although I build I what I already do and know, and I adapt and get better over time. I need to apply this to losing weight....major light bulb moment.

This one sentence has really given me a whole new perspective. I should reflect on what has worked and is do-able from past experiences and apply it before moving forward. I need to pick/make a plan and be consistent and resist the temptation to change things up until I give it some solid time, maybe at least three months without changing anything.

Thank you for sharing, Blessings!

I have not posted in a long while as I am almost embarrassed that my previous plans have all failed :oops: but at least I have not gained anything back but have not lost more either...
April

"Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step.”
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by TeacherJ » Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:00 pm

"one way to be successful at something where you are failing is to use what you learn where you are being successful."

I like this!
5'2 female; 40-something years old

Started No S on 7/11/21
Starting size: 16/XL
Current size: 16/XL
Goal size: 10/M

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:11 pm

Sadly, I was wrong about that! I have followed an approach to habit building that was based on gradual change. That does not work with losing weight I finally concluded.

I went back to my Novena Diet, nine days of restricted eating followed by a period of adjustment. I am going to ratchet down my weight five pounds at a time.

Last September, I had a blood pressure reading of 144/100 and my doctor recommended blood pressure medication. Instead, I changed my diet with guidance from the book “Blood Pressure Down” and built a habit of walking. Last week, I returned for my annual physical and my blood pressure was 117/82. My weight had not budged.

On Tuesday, I started counting 1500 calories/day. I am having trouble sleeping because I am so hungry. My only goal for nine days is to keep under 1500 calories/day.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:34 pm

Just wanted to be sure you had seen this news. Best of luck with Novena.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:02 pm

Yes. I just saw it. I spent a lot of time on this site trying to understand why I was fat. My Novena Diet failed again, but I had an interesting experience yesterday. You see, my husband backed into my car and needed his bumper replaced, and then I drove from that shop to get his car's oil changed. Ever since then, his car smelled. I finally, after six weeks, went back to the oil change place to ask the manager to see if there was a rag that was left in the car because it had to be either the oil change place or the collision shop that had caused the smell. The manager opened the side door and immediately looked under the passenger side seat to find a leaking can of stain. It never occurred to either of us that we had caused the problem! What a blind spot!

As I was driving home after that, it being Thanksgiving week, I heard about children facing hunger. It occurred me after I got home that hunger is portrayed as this terrible thing. Maybe this is a blind spot. Maybe hunger is a good thing. Maybe I should appreciate hunger and not be afraid of it.

The word used for hunger when I was growing up was appetite. If I tried to snack before dinner, my mother would caution me against spoiling my appetite. Today appetite is only used in the context of suppressing your appetite.

Maybe all we need to do is appreciate appetite. Not suppress it. Not spoil it.

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:31 pm

I have returned to the SET guidelines. They are:
S: Sit down to eat.
E: Eat without distraction.
T: Take a sip between bites and before and after eating.

This seems to limit my desire to eat without being a hard and fast restriction.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:47 pm

Hunger is indeed a very good thing as long as we are willing to deal with the "fake need" for food that can follow even after eating. I had bad experiences with that early in my "diet" career, but I am so glad now that I kept at it. I had to get over some humps, and even now sometimes still have to negotiate, but I know I always have a decent meal coming up, and I also know it's a good thing to eat so that my body can tap into its fat stores. (Also accepting that most of the foods I overdid don't really qualify as food. They were nourishing nothing!)

Good luck with SET.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:35 pm

Thank you, oolala53!

I seem to be doing well with this. I am eating what I want but just taking a sip between bites, and I got a copy of "The Weigh Down Diet" so I could read where I got that idea. I am just horrified reading it because it focuses on waiting for a stomach growl -- and that was my downfall. I was in a panic to get to that growl and then I binged.

It is so much easier just to have an approach that requires discipline but also offers flexibility. I also am not being militant about this. If I want to have a taste test at Costco, I can even if I cannot sit down and even if no water is available to sip.

I just want to add that I am at peace with this approach. I've given enough time and energy to weight loss that I will accept the weight that results from this approach.

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:55 pm

Reading the book is traumatizing for me. I have not yet gotten to the part where the author recommends taking a sip between bites, but she did say that behavior modification does not work. She might be right about that. Sitting down to eat and eating without distraction may be of limited to no use. What I am realizing is that taking a sip between bites somehow alters your eating. I do not understand this at all. What I realize is that the few times I have not taken a sip between bites when I have eating have led to stomach problems -- even what I would characterize as a stomach ache.

So now all I am doing is taking a sip between bites.

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:28 pm

It turns out that the author of the book, Gwen Shamblin, founded a church and managed to secure millions of dollars which were hidden in real estate trusts. She was described as a grifter but died in a plane accident in May, 2021. The plane was most likely flown by her husband who was not up to date on his licenses. I have had a very bad feeling about the author but had no idea that she was viewed as a cult leader.

At any rate, on page 52 of this 300+ page book, I finally encountered a sentence about taking sips between bites. Here it is: "Sip your drink between bites to wash the palate off so you can start over and savor the next bite."

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:47 pm

It is easier to take a sip between bites if I am also sitting down to eat and eating without distraction.

SET Guidelines:
S: Sit down to eat.
E: Eat without distraction.
T: Take a sip between bites and before and after eating.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:36 am

They do tend to go together. What are the distractions you usually have? Is talking with someone else at the meal a distraction? Or is it only an issue when you eat alone? Do you have many meals alone? I live alone and often use distraction, but it doesn't usually get in the way of eating moderately. Moderation is just so important to me now. But maybe I should pick a few meals a week to unhook from the props and the attention solely on the eating be enough. I don't tend to eat fast anymore but I would probably slow down even more.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Wed Mar 23, 2022 1:47 am

Years and years ago, my son told me something like that I was looking for a magic bullet for weight loss. At this point, I agree.

I concluded that The Weigh Down Diet has one key bit of information in it which I would interpret as follows: I have a distorted sense of hunger and fullness.

What to do about it? Two days ago, at 215.0 pounds, I decided to start writing down what I eat and tracking my weight. That is it. Simple. No weighing food or counting calories. Just a simple recording of food eaten. I have a paper planner and now have in it one page per week with each page having seven rows for each day of the week and three columns for each day so I can record morning, afternoon and evening eating.

I find it easier to not eat when I assure myself that my sense of humor her is goofed up. I can still eat whatever I want but I won’t lose weight unless I eat less than what that internal hunger cue tells me to eat.

ladybird30
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:35 am

Hi Kathleen, I have found writing down my food very useful when I need to get back on track. I hope it helps you too.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:22 pm

Hi ladybird30,

It is hard to be an unconscious eater if you write down what you eat. I concluded I need to wait for hunger every single time and has a conversation with my husband and about it. He said don’t snack. I said I will have three meals a day. Period.

Back to a key element of NoS: no snacks.

Today is Day 1. I don’t want another Day 1.

ladybird30
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:04 pm

Yes, I wait until hungry before eating. But I also believe that establishing the 3 meal habit needs to come first before the perfection of waiting until hungry every time.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:09 pm

I never get hungry -- and I mean never. I eat at mealtimes and when taking breaks in what I am doing. A few weeks ago, I decided that I have a distorted sense of hunger.

Two days ago, at 216.2, I decided to try to wait for a physical sign of hunger. I had two meals on Sunday (breakfast was bulletproof coffee) and three meals yesterday (breakfast was bulletproof coffee). Not to overstate it when I am but I now feel like I have been hit by a truck. I feel awful, so awful I had a banana and yogurt for breakfast rather than that bulletproof coffee. Today I weighed 212.2.

I keep telling myself that I need to wait for hunger, that any other approach will just end in misery whereas this approach starts out with misery.

One difference for me from when I have tried the approach of waiting for hunger is I am limiting myself to eating three times per day no matter what. Last night, I didn't eat dinner with my husband and daughter, but I did feel a slight twinge of hunger at 7:30 and ate then.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:54 pm

A new leg in the journey!

What constitutes hunger can be tricky. My regular cues subsided in 2016 and I have tried many adjustments along the way, the most significant being the recent one I instituted last July after seeing average blood glucose rise over the previous 18 months. It's harder than "dieting" ever was, but the glucose monitor readings are right there, no matter what the stomach is saying. If I have adequate glucose circulating, there is really no good reason to eat, at least for this body any more. But there's no telling that my younger body might have been able to clear glucose much faster and at a rate that would have allowed me to overeat. The No S structure was enough for many years.

I made the mistake while on this program, which did increase satiety and thus led to sizable drops in calorie intake, of not keeping up with activity at the same time, but you seem to be better at that than I am. I have been able to gauge things over this eight months so that I can pretty predictably get my readings in the right range for the eating times that are most important to me. I eat alone nearly all the time but like preserving dinner time at least. Most people won't stick with eating that keeps them from being able to share food in some kind of consistent, minimum way.

It's also tricky that the body can register desire for food from the brain long before it makes the effort to tap into its fat reserves. This helped keep our ancestors alive but is leading to many problems in an environment where food it pretty much always available. Most people never get hungry because they don't wait long enough and fear it. Everyone has to figure out that seesaw ride for herself.

The quality of the food eaten makes a big difference, too. It takes a lot more calories of refined foods to register satiety. Mice fed a "supermarket" diet ad libitum of the average foods Americans routinely eat nearly all gain weight. Of course, they don't care! When they go back to eating their diet of rat chow freely, they lose. Obviously, they are not trying to eat less or lose. It just happens. But it's still a bit unnatural in comparison with the situation we have, given that it's not common to live in an atmosphere with nearly all whole foods. And some bodies have set points that keep much weight gain in check even if being fed a lot of processed foods.

Oy! In any case, wishing you a successful April.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:01 pm

oolala53,

I can imagine it is tricky to figure out hunger cues! I remember once my stomach growling when Tom and I were discussing dinner. Was the growl brought on by the discussion? What I concluded was that a stomach noise does not necessarily mean hunger. What does? I have to figure that out for myself and maybe hunger cues are different for different people or even change as we age.

I ate so much at lunch yesterday that I wasn't hungry for dinner, and today I weighed 211.2. I am trying to pay attention to what might signal hunger.

Tom introduced a good idea which is to wait for a meal before eating, although he thinks it is a bad idea to skip meals. I told him I need to figure out how much to eat at one meal so that I am hungry by the next meal. Many years ago, I remember someone telling me that she thought those who were thin knew how to tolerate hunger. Interesting idea... why can't I experience hunger at 8 and be able to wait until noon to eat? I did have breakfast of a banana and yogurt even though I have no idea if I was hungry. I just don't think it is a good idea to have coffee on an empty stomach.

Kathleen

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:04 am

I cannot depend on signals any more, though I have found that if I eat the right breakfast and an extremely small "lunch," more like a snack, I can be hungry for dinner, but it is not truly predictable. For years on Vanilla No S, I was able to gauge meals so that I was hungry, but older body systems just don't work as well. I am limited by blood sugar and fat metabolism issues now. It takes a lot of the choice out of things, much like sticking to No S structure does. Decreasing decision making is a common strategy used in over-consumption problems of all kinds. I still get inklings to eat outside of these times, but I know if I do, I will not enjoy the food later.

Have you read Dopamine Nation? Only a small part of it is about eating issues, but so many of the principles seem to apply to the kind of overeating that leads to fat accumulation.

Slim people are often willing to get very hungry. For instance, even though they may be very hungry, they will usually choose to wait for a meal with others, such as dinner out, rather than "take the edge off." But it's likely also true that they are in a natural set point range and their bodies don't cue them to eat outside it. It's also true, though, that when they are exposed to more food at one time, such as a big restaurant meal, they too are likely to eat more food than they would when served less. The difference is that they will often later naturally just eat less. We who don't have such natural controls must impose them.

Being able to tolerate hunger long enough to allow the body to tap into its fat stores is necessary for just about everybody. It can feel like punishment but that's just the mistaken survival drive. The only people I've read of who consistently say they never get hungry while lowering intake are those who get into ketosis, which lowers appetite. But that involved being very restricted in food choices and the effect can wear off in about a year. But it can work wonders on certain health conditions, especially nervous system issues. The weight loss is a side effect.

Stomach noise has been associated with hunger but it does not mean a need for food. It's often after someone tolerates stomach grumbles that the body will then tap into glycogen stores. It won't burn much fat until glycogen is used up. Glycogen is bound with water, which is why people often lose weight when first reducing food. It's the water being released from the glucose. Unless people are fed very small amounts of food at a time, the body will not have a reason to get its stores if people eat often. That's why the three meals and three snacks movement didn't work very well. It's not really much easier to consistently eat small amounts than it is to consciously reduce calories.

You didn't ask but trying to determine any real connection with weight loss and gain on a daily basis with what a person eats can be very misleading. The body is just not capable of altering fat stores by very much on a daily basis unless it is manipulated very carefully and even then it's iffy. Big changes have more to do with water changes, which are often related to starchy, refined flour foods, sugar, and salt.

Oh, my goodness, the price we have paid for having an abundance of affordable food!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:22 pm

April 7: 211.0 today

Wow, that was really helpful! Thank you!

I don't feel hungry if I have a banana and yogurt in the morning along with coffee so that will be my routine at least for now.

I may switch to three meals per day and aim for some sense of hunger. I was very happy this morning to wake up with some sense of hunger.

Dopamine Nation sounds like something interesting to read.

7 PM: Today was not miserable. Today was fine. I actually slept ok, too. Maybe I am already through the worst. I have to tune into hunger. This afternoon, I was at Costco and I have many times thought that how I addressed my weight problem had to include how I dealt with Costco taste tests. It seemed as I was walking by the taste tests that there was a paradigm shift: I had no interest in them because I wasn't hungry. Shocking. I didn't even recall that I had told Tom that I wouldn't snack. I wasn't interested in Costco taste tests solely because I wasn't hungry.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:39 am

Day 6. 211.4. Woke at 3. Very slight emptiness in stomach kept me awake. This isn’t hunger. It just isn’t stuffed which is what I am used to being. I need to get used to not being stuffed.

The idea of standardizing meals somewhat appeals to me. I already have pretty much a standard of a banana and yogurt for breakfast. I am going to look into having walnuts for lunch.

I bribed myself to get through this. Katie starts a new job in late April and we are doing on a trip to Wyoming during Easter week. She needs to distance herself from a job where she was very successful but the boss called out people in front of their peers, and I need to bribe myself to endure this transition.

I look back at the many times I tried to avoid the feeling of hunger by eating popcorn (which ai actually did this week — an entire bucketful) or grapefruit, and I realize I was on the wrong path. I was trying to avoid hunger instead of welcoming it as a signal that it is time to eat. Hunger is not an on off switch. It builds over time. It totally makes sense that thin people let hunger build until mealtime.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:57 pm

All the best with the hunger training Kathleen.
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:07 pm

I was at Costco this morning and had a taste test. I have reverted to eating while not hungry. I think that the most socially acceptable way to train myself to eat only when hungry is to have small meals but have a meal three times per day.

Why does this seem like self evident common sense?

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:18 am

I am stuffed right now. It feels good.

I believe that I could go down the path of only eating when hungry but the social cost is so great I would either become a fanatic or would keep on failing, binge eating, and staring over with Day 1 after Day 1.

I am going to go the small meal route.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by lpearlmom » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:01 am

i so wanted the eating only when hungry thing to work for me but it never did. partly cuz i thought i was always hungry and therefore gained 80 lbs. also yes it’s not realistic unless you live alone and rarely have meals with friends.

i do think you are right. eating just the right amount to insure you’ll be hungry at the next meal. also when you eat at the same time, you train your body to be hungry at those times. much more sustainable i think.

best of luck!!
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Amy3010 » Wed May 04, 2022 5:03 am

I hope things are going well with figuring out how much to eat so you're not hungry at the next meal! It is challenging - hang in there!

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat May 14, 2022 2:52 pm

What a month. Life happened. Our daughter Katie was so upset with her boss (worse than either of us have ever had) that her hair was falling out, and she found another job. She had a three week employment gap, so I drove her to stay for several days at the Wyoming ranch where she had stayed as a college graduation gift last year. This was a way for her to "turn the page" on her awful last job. There was a blizzard that closed 94 through much of ND until two days before Easter, so we drove through SD with our trip starting after Easter dinner. We were at the Wyoming ranch three nights, and a big blizzard was predicted to come in the next day so we decided to leave early. We drove over the Big Horn Mountains and crossed into SD with signs overhead predicting a blizzard starting at 3 am Saturday. We were driving Friday afternoon. We arrived at Wall Drug to look around and we saw the storm coming in, so we left and saw the storm to our south as we drove. The next day, even I-80 in Wyoming was closed and of course the route over the Big Horns was closed. We arrived home Saturday night, having driven more than 3,000 miles since Sunday afternoon.

I had scheduled an oil change for after our return and found out the brakes need to be replaced. I scheduled service for the next week and then found out that there was something rusted inside the Sienna that made it unsafe to drive and required $3,000 in repairs. The body of the Sienna could have collapsed onto the wheels. Imagine that as we were driving over the Big Horns. We could have careened over the side of the road. For the past week, I have been looking for a Sienna because next week Ellie starts an internship and needs one of our cars. Two days ago, five days after finding out about the extensive repairs needed on our old Sienna, I traded in the Sienna for another Sienna. Tom was too swamped at work to help look, so I relied on the advice of the very helpful service manager where we get our cars serviced. It was still very stressful. A married woman without her husband and with little to no knowledge of cars does not seem like a good prospect to car salespeople, I sadly learned. Yesterday we got the 4Runner serviced so Ellie could use it for her internship going to construction sites. Getting everything done before Ellie starts next week was stressful.

What does this all mean? As my mother said, I think I need to thank my guardian angel that we made it intact on this trip. I also realize the utter futility of any sort of a weight management program that requires a lot of time and attention. Yesterday, I weighed 213.2 and weighed my options.

Today, I decided that a stomach growl while imperfect, could indicate hunger. My stomach rarely growls. I decided just to wait for a stomach growl and then eat a small meal if it is mealtime but wait if it is not yet a mealtime. I will skip meals if I have not had a stomach growl since the prior meal. This approach appeals to my desire for perfection. I can know if my stomach is growling. The risk, of course, is that my stomach growls for other reasons, but I can mitigate that risk by focusing on only having small meals.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Amy3010 » Sun May 15, 2022 6:25 am

Wow - that does sound like an incredibly stressful month - thank goodness you made it back home safely! Of course when life hits you like that, the urgency of a weight loss plan just fades into the background, doesn't it?

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun May 15, 2022 6:58 pm

Hi Amy2010:

Yes, it does!

I did have some time to think, however, which is a good thing. Yesterday, both girls were out, so we were on our own for dinner, and Tom wanted to eat out. It is less expensive to go out when there are only two of you!

So much for my plan of waiting for a stomach growl!

I decided on this modification: wait each morning to eat until my stomach growls. Today, it growled at about 11 am.

I prefer to have something to eat when I have my morning coffee, so it will be motivating to eat less during the day so that I have a stomach growl in the morning. We shall see how this goes.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Amy3010 » Mon May 16, 2022 5:40 am

I get it - that was one of my motivations for not eating in the evenings after dinner - I wanted to wake up feeling hungry for breakfast! I hope this works for you, too :D

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat May 21, 2022 8:40 pm

That did not last long.

I am back to the brilliance of the NoS Diet with its focus on habits.

Probably two decades ago, someone said to me that she thought that thin people knew how to tolerate hunger. That seemed like an odd statement to me, and I have pondered its implications ever since then.

I think those who are fat tend to eat before becoming hungry and also at any indication of hunger. Yesterday while at the dentist my stomach growled. Was that an emergency? No. Did I really need to go straight from the dentist to the kitchen? No.

I decided just to write down what I eat and give one letter explanations for why:
C: coffee
M; meal
H: hunger
S: social
N: none of the above

My first goal is to eat only under very broad circumstances. If I just eliminate non social snacking, I am eliminating a lot of eating. Will I end up eating more at mealtimes as a result? That remains to be seen.

Right now, it is almost 4. I feel enough of a desire to eat that I would go have crackers or bread except that I am not hungry and it isn’t mealtime. Can I argue to myself that I am in fact hungry? Yes. Like all humans, I am a master of self deception. I need to limit myself to eating outside of mealtime or social situations only if I am definitely hungry. A stomach growl is not a sign of definite hunger. In fact at this point I am not sure I know what hungry feels like!

This is sure a simple approach. The question is whether it is effective.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Sun May 22, 2022 1:09 am

Hi Kathleen, it's been my experience that eating only when I was hungry was something I had to work up to. It wasn't consistently possible until after I had established a three meal a day habit
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Soprano » Sun May 22, 2022 1:35 pm

I would say definitely get the 3 meals a day habit formed. Do it for 3 months then review. Forget hunger for now like you have found it can be a difficult thing to follow.

I've followed your posts for a long time and really feel for you. Have you read Nos recently? Sometimes going back to basics re-reading you see it in a different light.

Good luck

Jx
Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by kyl77 » Wed May 25, 2022 12:04 am

I read a book years ago called Thin Within that tries to teach you to eat when only hungry, but I don't think it's practical. I don't think intuitive eating is practical either. I've found it's much easier for me to eat a reasonable amount of food at regular mealtimes. I'm finding I'm now hungry when mealtime arrives and I'm not hungry between meals. It takes a bit of experimenting to discover how much you need to eat to avoid becoming excessively hungry between meals without overeating, but I'm getting better at it all the time. I think Ladybird and Soprano are right. Establish a solid three meal-a-day eating habit first before focusing on hunger.

What I like about the diet is it's simplicity. I'm doing my best to not make it more complicated. It's not always easy, but it is always simple. I tried this diet in the past and I added too many other rules making it too hard to follow and too strict. Now I'm all about moderation. I'd rather get there slowly and keep my sanity.

You're doing great. Don't make it any harder than it has to be.

Good Luck!

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:37 pm

Kathleen, have you ever sat down and written what the benefits would be if you stuck to something like No S for a year, and also what will happen if you don't, i.e., if you keep on doing what you have been doing? It's perfectly okay with me if you still have the same habits ten years from now- is that about how long you've been coming here? Is it okay with you? Can you do this for the rest of your life? (I know I will likely be working on other things and making only a smidgeon of progress for the rest of my life.)

Writing those two and reading them daily can help enormously. Wanting to get away from the roller coaster of trying diets that one ultimately fails on is THE MAJOR successful motivation for compulsive overeaters, besides having a present health problem. Just losing weight for its own sake or because of shame over the body is hardly ever successful. But I don't get that you feel a lot of shame over your body, and that is good.

Happy June
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Soprano » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:53 am

Good advice from Oolala, my weightloss was successful and sustained when I did it for health not just to be thin!

Jx
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:53 am

Ugh. The number on the scale is just a tracking device, and I am concerned about health. Health is my primary driver.

Back in December, we all got Covid, and Tom spent a night in the hospital. That was a wake up call that life ends at some point. Since then, I have been pushing him to us to enjoy life even before he retires. Of course, sometimes you get the unexpected. The first thing he wanted to do was buy season tickets to the U of M football games!

I look with regret all the time spent trying to figure out how to lose weight and failing and failing time and again. When I’d try to lose weight, often what happens is there is a diet backlash and I just binge eat and regain whatever weight I lost.

There I was, a couple of weeks ago, at 216,6 on June 5. Then sickness came to our house. There have been a lot of sicknesses in our community which is rare for summer. First Katie got sick and tested negative for Covid. Then I didn’t feel well, and finally Ellie got sick.

I developed a cough so I have been pretty house hound. I don’t want anyone else to get sick.

In that environment, I didn’t eat a couple of days except in the morning. I believes this started on June 8. I realized that it was very easy for me to not eat except in the morning, and I just continued.

Weight;
6/8: 215.6
6/9: 213.4
6/10: 211.6
6/11: 211.2
6/12: 210,6
6/15: 210.2
6/16/: 210.2
6/16: 209.6

Restricting eating to a set time range daily is called time restricted eating. I have tried it before, and I have even tried a four hour eating window at 4 to 8 pm.

What is positive about what I am doing now is I can eat as much as I want between 8 am and 12 pm and still be below the calorie level that maintains my weight.

Now obviously always eating just between 8 am and 12 pm would turn me into a social recluse, so I am wondering if this is something that could be practiced periodically to ratchet down my weight.

I was supposed to have coffee with a friend this morning but cancelled so I am still not 100% so it is unclear to me if I just ate less due to being sick or this window for rating works well. Time will tell.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:13 pm

Today, 6/18: 209.2

Here is what happened. I have been following the Front Line Critical Care Group on Covid treatments, and I think a lot of the reason why I weathered Covid so well was that I was taking a lot of vitamins as recommended by FLCCC.

Still, in March, I got sick, and then last week I got sick and even didn't smell at all for about a day.

Was this so-called long Covid? FLCCC has a protocol for recovering from vaccine injuries. While I am not vaccine injured, I saw that it included intermittent daily fasting, or Time Restricted Eating.

I have tried that. In fact, I had to go digging back in my journal here on NoS to find the original author I followed for intermittent fasting: Bert Herring. Yesterday, I ordered his books off abebooks.com because I had long ago gotten rid of them.

What I am going to try to do is track days that I only eat between 8 am and noon by circling the date on the calendar which is in my planner. I have one page per month for tracking exercise. I am also going to try to walk 2 miles per day.

The recommended times for what Dr. Herring calls Fast-5 (eat only within 5 consecutive hours per day) are in the afternoon so you aren't cut off from socializing: times like 3 - 8 pm or 2 to 7 pm. I tried that approach and did not lose weight. Now what I am going to do is try to eat between 8 and 12 pm to lose weight or periodically to maintain weight loss but expect that I will have many days when I eat at night. I can sit at the dinner table with a glass of water and chat. No one cares if I actually eat with them.

The approach requires patience. I'm not expecting dramatic results. What makes me happy at the moment is that my weight is now below the weight on my driver's license.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Octavia » Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:51 pm

Kathleen wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:13 pm
What makes me happy at the moment is that my weight is now below the weight on my driver's license.
That’s fantastic, Kathleen! 👍

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The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:27 am

Well, well, well.... my journal here has helped me to understand my failed approaches to dieting and what might work.

I had a very memorable day on June 29, 2018. At the time I was practicing intermittent fasting with an eating window of 12 -7. It didn't even occur to me to eat before climbing Misery Ridge in Oregon with my youngest daughter. The trail is steep and you walk on a path up to 10 feet wide. Towards the top of the ridge, I sat down to rest and fainted into the trail which was right next to the cliff. Had I not sat down, I might have toppled over the edge. I came to with many people around me and my terrified teenage daughter on the phone to have me evacuated. How embarrassing. Someone asked me if I had eaten and gave me food. I felt much better and we finished the hike. Before we continued on our hike, I took a picture from where I had sat down and sent it to Tom with the words, “What was I thinking?”

After that, I realized there had to be exceptions to eating within a set daily window of time, and I moved on to trying other ways to lose weight. My interest in intermittent fasting was rekindled earlier this year because the FLCCC, an organization that worked on early treatment for Covid, came out with a protocol for treating vaccine injured people. The protocol includes intermittent fasting. I didn't get vaccinated, but I did have Covid, so I got the spike protein and have had a lingering cough.

I planned all summer to spend a week by myself to figure out how to have a healthy weight. I ended up staying at the Scout camp where we have many fun summers as the kids grew up and where all three daughters were camp counselors. There is always availability that last week of camp at the section reserved for families because so many school programs start up in mid August. I took advantage of having a cabin on a beautiful lake in Northern Minnesota. I brought soup and ingredients to make bulletproof coffee (which I found to be disgusting) and three books, Dr. Herring’s two books on intermittent fasting and one (The Weigh Down Diet) on learning to eat only when you are physically hungry.

My plan was to have bulletproof coffee in the morning and homemade soup in the afternoon so that over the days at camp I would come to feel physical hunger. I had wanted to get to a baseline of hunger before returning home.

I ended up maybe briefly experiencing hunger once or twice and decided that following a strict rule of eating only when physically hungry was impractical. What if I wasn’t hungry before climbing Misery Ridge or going on a long drive? How about not sticking out socially? I decided the book most appropriate for me was Dr. Herring's book on Appetite Correction. I could go back in my journal here to figure out how I could make that diet work for me. I need perfection and I need precision: how do you do that? If you have an eating window of 12 - 7 and you plan to climb Misery Ridge (although those days of climbing Misery Ridge are past for me!!!), what do you do?

Over that week all by myself, I ended up with a plan. The diet that Dr. Herring descibes is "eat within five consecutive hours." He does recommend you make a study of 1 -- a study of yourself -- and figure out how to make that approach of daily intermittent fasting work for you.

Well, now I have. I don't have a set daily time for eating within five consecutive hours. Instead, I track one fast per day that is an average of 19 hours. I created a tracking sheet for my planner that has columns for Goal Time, Start Time, End Time, and Fast Length. Start Time is the time I start eating. End Time is the time I end eating. Goal Time for the following day is 19 hours after the End Time. Fast Length is the time difference between End Time and the following day's Start Time. I have a separate sheet where I calculate accumulated excess fast time which I call reserve fast time.

It sounds complicated, and it has taken some time to figure out the tracking, but it is only tracking times which is way less complicated than counting calories. It also is very flexible. It reminds me of how I track our expenditures.

As an example, this is where I landed today. I finished eating yesterday at 3:55 PM, so I wrote out my goal time to start eating today was 10:55 AM (19 hour fast). We ate a lot of junk yesterday because we were at the state fair. This morning, I started eating at 11:01 AM and finished at 3:15 PM. My calculated fast time for 3:55 PM yesterday to 11:01 AM today was 19 hours 6 minutes. I added 6 minutes to my calculated reserve fast time over an average of 19 hours to have 7 hours 31 minutes of reserve fast time which can be used in the future to have fast lengths under 19 hours such as when I plan to drive alone one day later this month for 12 hours. I am not going to drive for several hours without any food. That would be as foolish as climbing Misery Ridge on an empty stomach!

Today I weighed exactly 210.0 which is the weight on my driver's license. I started at 217.8 on August 14. It took the couple of days at camp to dump the idea of eating only when physically hungry and then a couple more days to land on the idea of tracking fast length rather than setting an eating window such as 2 - 7 PM. It wasn’t until the end of that week at camp that I started tracking when I started and stopped eating. After I got home from camp, it took a couple more weeks for me to come up with the idea of accumulating a reserve of excess fast lengths to use when I cannot or should not have a 19 hour fast. In fact, just today, I printed off the finalized tracking sheets.

My weight had gone up this summer due to diet backlash. I always knew I needed a diet in which I could eat anything I want and as much of it as I wanted. Now I have it. My one restriction is to have the longest daily fast average 19 hours. Simple.

No wonder it took so many years for me to find a diet that works for me. Here is what I needed:
1. Is simple
2. Can be tracked on one sheet in my planner
3. Is precise in tracking my eating
4. Allows flexibility
5. Allows for perfection
6. Allows me to eat whatever I want and as much as I want.

Note: I don’t need to track reserve fast time every day if I have enough banked for reserve fast time so I have it on a separate sheet. The NoS Diet met all these criteria but only resulted in a 20 pound weight loss down to 195 — and I needed to lose more! After 9 months at 195, I moved on to trying other diets but always kept in mind that NoS was very close to what I needed. My one tweak for NoS has been floating exception days because that tweak allowed for perfection just like the reserve fast time allows for perfection.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:15 pm

I realized that my goal for this diet is simply to have a positive number for the reserve fast time, so I updated my tracking sheet to have the reserve fast time on it, and I moved exercise tracking to a different sheet. On Saturday, we tailgated for a football game, and we invited our son's future in-laws to join us with our son and his future wife. We toasted with mimosa. Imagine passing on having mimosa because you were not in your eating window!

At any rate, I am thinking I will have a standard fast time of 19 1/2 hours, accruing 1/2 hour of reserve fast time every day to be used for those occasions like on Saturday.

I am cautiously optimistic that this diet will work because my desire to eat is being impeded by feeling sick when I overeat. Feeling sick has definitely not been the norm for me when overeating, so I think it won't be too long before I stop overeating. Time. It will take time to tell.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:28 pm

That morning eating really threw my eating out of whack, but I think what I can do is plan on a routine of fasting one additional hour (to 20 hours) when my reserve time is under 10 hours and 30 additional minutes (to 19 1/2 hours) when my reserve time is over 20 hours). I literally am tracking one number from day to day: reserve time.

7:10 PM: I ended up deciding to have a standard 4 1/2 hour window from 2:30 to 7 PM and have any time less than 5 hours be accrued as reserve time. This Saturday is Band Parent Day, and we will have lunch. That will mess me up again. I was trying to shift eating gradually later from my Saturday eating but that was way too complicated. Study of 1. I need to find what works for me.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:18 pm

I am back down to 210 (the weight on my driver's license) and feeling somewhat elated that I think I have an approach that could work. Yesterday, I finished eating at 2:10 PM and today I will wait until 2:30 PM to start eating. I already know from my week at camp that it should be rather easy to wait that long to eat because all I had that week from Sunday to Friday was bulletproof coffee and soup.

Going forward, my standard window will be 2 - 7 PM but I will try to wait to eat until after 2:30 PM so that I can accrue flexible reserve minutes. If I eat later than exactly 2 PM or finish eating earlier than exactly 7 PM, I will accrue those minutes for reserve fast time to be used for eating outside my eating window. This Saturday, I will start eating no later than approximately 11:30 PM which means I will start eating a full 2 1/2 hours before my eating window is supposed to open.

We shall see how this goes. So much is appealing to me: being able to eat as much as I want with no restrictions on choice of food and being able to follow the diet perfectly since there is so much flexibility. Time will tell if I lose enough weight, and I think I will because when I overeat after a fast my body objects: I just plain don't feel well, something that was obvious last night. Overeating becomes like touching a hot stove: how long until you learn not to do it?

My husband is quite skeptical and for good reason. He has heard "I have the answer" many times.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:23 pm

210.2 I ended up eating yesterday starting at 1:10 PM and ate so much that I didn't have dinner. That is OK. At least I didn't eat so much I felt sick. It occurred to me that I am being too rigid in thinking this will go smoothly because it won't. I will have ups and downs in weight and also in moderate eating and that is OK. I need to stay focused on keeping the reserve fast time above 0 hours. It is now above 10 hours. It will take time to lose weight and that is also OK. This approach allows me to live my life without social disruption. It also is supposed to be healthy to fast intermittently. I am going to be listening to a podcast by Jason Fung today.

As an aside, I had a picture of where I fainted on Misery Ridge and decided to put it on my phone as a reminder for why I stopped experimenting with fasting. It scared me to realize that I could have toppled over that ridge had I not sat down. This approach to fasting is safe because it is flexible. I could have eaten before that climb. It would have occurred to me to eat. The crazy thing about that morning is I took Ellie to breakfast before the climb and it didn't even occur to me to eat.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:55 am

210.4. I am doing better with an eating window around 1:20 - 6:30 PM. The key now is whether over time I will lose weight. Tomorrow is a game with eating starting around 11:30 but I can use reserve fast time. Most of the last month has been dedicated to adjusting to this rating approach. I have done as little else as possible. I told Tom my number one priority is to lose weight.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by lpearlmom » Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:06 am

hi great to see you’re still around. i really loved fasting for awhile but think i was pushing myself too hard. i was fasting a lot like up to 40 hrs sometimes. it backfired on me and i just couldn’t do it anymore. hubby still 5pm and has a lot of weight. but yes sometimes he slips but he jut gets right back as soon as possible.

im glad you’re being moderate about it. i still wish i could stick to 19/5 but i have to have my chai tea in the morning and then i’ve broken my fast. 🤷‍♀️

jason fung is really fun to listen to. look forward to hearing your thoughts. GL!
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 169
GW:160



do you know when the greatest moments in life are? right now. 🧚🏻








Instagram "lpearlmom"

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:36 pm

211.4. Game day. I was up several times last night. I ate too much yesterday. The key to this diet is you feel awful if you overeat. My rational mind to not overeat is overridden by some sort of survival mechanism that leads to binge eating. I don’t really understand this but I think the non rational part of my Brian is going to develop an aversion to overeating over time. I am sticking with this diet because I am sick and tired of spending so much time on diet research and because there is evidence that intermittent daily fasting is good for you for reasons other than weight loss. Autophagy is what happens when you fast, and it sounds like the household equivalent of taking out the garbage: my body isn’t spending energy in digesting food when I fast so it has time to destroy defective cells.

ladybird30
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:58 am

Hi Kathleen, when I have had a bit of time to think about what I want to say, I am going to write about why I think I am not bingeing at the moment on my thread. I believe that Linda also has had success, with a different approach to mine.

Bingeing is the pits, so I wish you success.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

Kathleen
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Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:17 am

I don’t think this approach allows binge eating without the consequences of feeling awful. It is just too early to tell. Like ladybird30, there are some foods it is best I keep out of the house entirely. Wheat Thins. Soft pretzels. Caramels.

I had an 11 hour drive and decided to take two days each way. We have always been so frugal, and it just time to recognize we are getting older and maybe should take better care of ourselves.

Yesterday was a day when I had breakfast, lunch and dinner. I did not overeat. For example, I ordered a sandwich at Panera and only had half. For dinner, I had a chicken pot pie. My eating started at 9:20 and ended at 6. The pot pie did not sit well with me. Why? Was something wrong with the food or was my body no longer uses to eating over the length of time? I don’t know.

With a time zone change and erratic eating times, I found it difficult to calculate out reserve fast time so I decided to round up to the next 15 minute marker. For example, I started eating two days ago at 1:11 PM. Going forward, that would be 1:15 PM. Today I finished eating at 2:20 PM but will mark it down as 2:30 PM. Close enough…

Kathleen
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Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:17 am

Today on my drive, I listened to a Peter Attia podcast in which he asked his guest a theoretical question: If there are twins and one gains 40 pounds but then loses it (perhaps due to inactivity after a sports injury) and the other always is a normal weight, is there a difference between the two three years later? The guest said the once overweight person would always feel as if he was starving no matter how long it had been since he lost weight.

Ugh.

Meanwhile, I am sticking to the daily intermittent fasting approach with the view that weight loss may take some time. Today at noon I had an entire bag of caramel corn and then a quarter pounder with cheese meal with Dr. Pepper. I had a Starbucks cold frappachino at 2 and finished eating by 2:30. I have no desire to eat now at 8 pm but clearly I ate a lot today.

If I can manage eventually to lose weight with this approach, I will not feel as if I am starving all the time since I am not starving while following the diet.

I did decide to manage my recording slightly differently. When I start eating, I will record back to the nearest 15 minute marker. That will give me incentive to wait to start eating at a 15 minute marker. I had the caramel corn ready to eat at 11:51 AM but waited until 12:00 PM!

Kathleen
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:07 pm

Hi lpearlmom,
I just saw your post! I have stuck around this discussion board because there was something quite brilliant about NoS Diet, and I think I know some of what it is. You follow a process. The difficulty with NoS, just like with the Fast 5 idea of a set eating window, is that perfection is impossible and I need what I have read is called a bright line.

Having an average daily fast of 19 hours allows me to have perfection. Staying above 0 hours of reserve fast time is my bright line.

There is evidence that intermittent daily fasting is good for you aside from weight loss. It still remains to be seen if I can lose weight this way. I got up to 213.2 last week and am now at 211.

The author of Appetite Correction said to expect 3 weeks of no weight loss and then an average of 1 pound per week, so I calculated out I should be at 215 this week. Time will tell.
Kathleen

ladybird30
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:45 pm

As far as Peter Atia's guest goes, I feel rather sceptical that this applies to everyone who loses weight permanently. I am nearly 30 lbs below my top weight and don't feel like I am starving. If I lost another 15 lbs I might because I would be getting below what is probably a healthy weight for me.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

Kathleen
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:26 pm

Hi ladybird30,
I think that your success has to do with following NoS. It is a brilliant idea because it allows eating what you want on the weekends so you can feel satisfied. Calorie restricted diets don’t allow you to feel satisfied EVER.
Kathleen

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:32 pm

I got a small leather journal to put in my purse, and I wrote out the days for this week on one page. I then can more easily write down my times when I started eating and stopped eating. My start and stop times are erratic to say the least but that in part is due to all the travel I have been doing and also the football games. Saturday is another morning game so I will probably start eating before 8:30 since the tailgate lot opens at 7.

Kathleen
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:31 pm

210.6. That journal will be helpful. I decided to track reserve time as well as weight and time when I can start eating after 19 hours. Today I started eating at noon and ended at 4:30 pm. I wrote 11:30 am under tomorrow’s date because 11:30 am is 19 hours after 4:30 pm. If I were home tomorrow morning, I would have written down my weight as well. Once I start eating tomorrow, I can write down my start time and calculate the cumulative reserve time. I will write that down and circle it because reserve time is the most important time to track. My success at this diet is exclusively keeping reserve time above 0. After I finish eating for the day tomorrow, I will write down the end time, calculate 19 hours ahead, and write that time inder the following day’s date in my journal.

It sounds all very complicated but that is the sum total of the diet. Yesterday for some reason I ate a ton and that is why I didn’t eat dinner even though I had made a favorite meal. That is ok. What I have to remind myself is this is a process which corrects the appetite: results are not immediate. Today I had no interest in a lot of food. That is also ok. Dinner was vegetarian sushi.

Kathleen
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:33 pm

I had a blood pressure check that was way high after a cup of coffee and no food. It may be that I should get away from routine drinking of coffee for intermittent daily fasting. That would be a sacrifice. Maybe coffee can become a treat. On Saturday, before the game, we are having Irish coffee!

It is actually starting to feel good to not eat as much. I think Injust have to go through the binge episodes to have an understanding of what amount of food feels best for my body. I have no weight goal. My goal is to feel good.

Kathleen
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:32 am

211.6 Game Day tomorrow. We will have Irish coffee at 8:30. I decided not to eat dinner tonight. It is getting difficult to NOT fast. Had I eaten dinner, I would not have enjoyed tomorrow morning's feast.

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:52 am

211.0. Started eating at 8:15 am and ended at 12:30 pm. I think I am getting to the point of needing a long daily fast. I certainly had no desire to eat tonight.

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:39 pm

210.0 With a three week start up of no weight loss followed by an average of 1 pound per week of weight loss, I am supposed to be at 214.0 this week, so I am good with my weight. I weighed 210.0 on September 4 and again today, almost a month later. That first week of eating almost nothing appears not to have done anything to speed along weight loss. I simply must go through the process of allowing my appetite to be corrected over time.

I now have my journal set up. In the sections for each day, I have the following written down in order of when I write them down:
- time if I fast 19 hours (today's time was 7:30 AM since I stopped eating at 12:30 PM yesterday; calculated and written down yesterday
- time I started eating today (today's time was 8:45 AM)
- calculation of fast time (12:30 PM yesterday to 8:45 AM today was 20 hours 15 minutes or 1 hour 15 minutes greater than 19 hours)
- calculation of reserve time (yesterday's cumulative reserve time was 4 hours 45 minutes yesterday so today's calculated reserve time is 6 hours with the addition of the 1 hour 15 minutes beyond the standard 19 hour fast)
- time I stopped eating today or 4:30 PM
- calculation of 19 hours past 4:30 PM or 11:30 AM which is written down for tomorrow's calendar.

At the bottom of the page, I am writing down my weight each day, so I am at 210.0 as of today.

I ate too much AGAIN today, and it is quite unpleasant. Tom took the dog out for a walk, and I did not go along. I just want to lie down. At some point, my body is going to rebel against overeating. I am going to allow myself to go through this process with no restrictions on my eating so I can see what happens.

Kathleen
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:55 pm

I renewed my driver’s license today and kept my weight at 210 since I weighed 211.4 today. I think this will work and am continuing it but it is disappointing to be down 6 pounds in two months and all that weight from my week of only having soup.

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