A little support in the early days please!

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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Bluebell
Posts: 633
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Location: Hampshire UK

A little support in the early days please!

Post by Bluebell » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:56 pm

Hi all I am new to this (I have a newbie thread with some lovely welcome messages) and I think I need a bit of a talking to from some more experienced No - Sers!
Firstly, I am committed to this, I think it might just help me sort out my poor relationship with food once and for all.
However I have some very bad habits from years of dieting and I am not sure how to undo them. I'll try and list them if you can bear with me!
1) I am used to being very strict in the early days and having a big weight loss. I stupidly got on the scales this morning and felt disheartened to see the same numbers. I have been doing this for one week and I know I am being ridiculous! I know that this is about slow weight loss and addressing eating habits. But I still have that voice whispering 'This will never work!'
2) I am in the very bad habit of mentally totting up my calories each day. I know this is unhelpful. I know its probably not even accurate. But its ingrained in me from years of stupid calorie controlled diets. Aagh! Will this dissapear over time?
3) I am worried about my S days. With the weekend coming up we have a family celebration, I am likely to want to stuff my face! I don't really know if I should just go with it. My family like to provide a massive meal and its hard to be restrained!
4) I so want this to be right, that I'm worrying about it going wrong. My success measurements are usually on the scales and I need to get my head around this being a different kind of success.
OK now I have officially made myself look like a fruit loop, are there any words of advice for me? :oops:
If you've made it this far thank you for reading! :D

RAWCOOKIE
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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:16 pm

Hi, I don't know if I can help. If you have time, you might find it helpful to read my first posts (and the first posts of others too - which will help you share those 'beginners' feelings - we all have them, in different ways.)

1) I have settled into a routine of weighing every morning, recording the number in a notebook (where I also plan my meals) - then on a Sunday I average out the numbers for the week to get an overall figure. I have found that, even though the scale reading might fluctuate, over time, the overall figure has steadily gone down.

2) I think any of us who have previously dieted will probably tend to 'guesstimate' the calories in things - I know I still do! Portion control has been something I still practice with No S. I now find that I generally keep more calorific foods for the weekend, as a treat. I moved from weighing and measuring to using a simple 9" plate for my meals. That is a natural modifier I find.

3) Yes, S days can be terrifying! I still experience a kind of eating-monster who rears her head sometimes. The trick with S days is to say 'yes' to everything you fancy, but to STOP yourself from pigging out too much. Over time (you have to trust me on this!) my capacity to stuff my face has diminished! I really DO feel 'full-up' more quickly. I hope you can enjoy the weekend, enjoy the food - but notice how everyone is eating, and consider - how do I want to eat?

4) Day on habit are the metric for success. I like using the HabitCal which helps me with this. Reinhard talks again and again about 'days on habit' being the only thing you need to worry about.

You are not a fruit loop! I guarantee that most people start off with the same concerns.
I love Everyday Systems :3

13.6.15 124.25lbs
3.3.19 114.5lbs

LifeisaBlessing
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Post by LifeisaBlessing » Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:18 pm

Hi Bluebell, and welcome to the NoS board! :)

Rest assured, you're not a fruit loop lol! I'll give you some advice from my perspective. I do a modified form of NoS, which for me means eating three meals, seven days a week of any food, sweets included. I have no "S days." After trying vanilla NoS unsuccessfully many times, my modified form has made the difference in achieving and surpassing my fat/weight loss goals. Hopefully, you'll find something in my recommendations that helps you a bit.

1) Regarding the scale, I tend to go against the grain here a bit. I'm a big believer in utilizing the scale as a tool to gauge progress. Use the information to adjust the amounts of food at your meals.

2) Caloric awareness is not all bad, and can definitely be helpful. After all, all successful fat/weight loss diets reduce calories, including NoS. As I was telling Apprentice1981 in my check-in thread, I glance at portions/calories in foods as I'm forming my meals/plates, so as to avoid the mistake of eating two meals' worth or even a day's worth of calories on one plate/one meal. Knowing calorie content in various foods is a good thing, and it's not necessarily synonymous with compulsively measuring/weighing every last morsel of food you eat. Once you get adept at knowing the various caloric content of the foods you eat regularly, you won't have to check calories as often. But IMHO, it's always a good idea to be calorically aware.

3) When I originally did vanilla NoS, S days always caused me to backslide. So when I did NoS this time successfully, it was due to my modification. When all foods including sweets were available to me at every meal, weekends and special events no longer held "pedestal status" for me anymore. It then became much easier to just stay on plan because I just kept doing what I normally did. Success!

I'm sure you will get many other recommendations from other NoS-ers, so definitely take what you feel works with your individual temperament and situation. The important thing is to find what will bring you success on your own terms! :)
I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination.
~Jimmy Dean

The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective.
~El Fug, on the NoS Diet

Bluebell
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Post by Bluebell » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:09 pm

Thank you so much for the replies, I really do appreciate it! And very reassuring to be told that my feelings are completely normal. Interesting what you say about the scales and also about calories. I take on board your comments. Maybe I am being too hard on myself. Thanks again, really helpful. I am posting each day on the October challenge, all green so far :D

ModBod
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Fellow Newbie!

Post by ModBod » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:22 pm

Hi Bluebell... I'm new too! I started No S as of last Friday (31 Sept) and it's going pretty well. The no snacking has been wonderful - to not be crazy about food all day, and to then really enjoy proper meals has been a breath of fresh air.

I find the 'no sweets' the challenge, and have ended up having dessert on Tuesday (we had guests and it was hard to say no) Wednesday (I watch Great British Bake Off and find it impossible not to eat SOMETHING! It'll be good when the series finishes!!) and then yesterday I was just 'Craving' something sweet... I think I had under-eaten during the day. Each of these I didn't see as 'terrible' because they all came as part of my evening meal, so I still avoided snacking and didn't have seconds.

And then today I'm making a cake for my husband's birthday tomorrow - and who could resist cake batter?! So. Not exactly 100% success, but I'm trying to see it as a process, and the fact I haven't snacked for an entire week - other than this cake mixture! - I feel is a pretty big victory to get me started.

I hadn't thought I'd join this message board as (no offence to everyone!) I didn't want to 'waste time' on the internet. But actually coming on and reading messages just now has stopped my licking out the cake bowl turning into eating everything in the kitchen, so I think it could well be the extra bit of support to help me keep going.

I think, like you, I am used to seeing dramatic results on the scales for a week or two at the start of some grand healthy eating plan that I try from time to time (before everything fizzles out!) so I am trying to be happy with simply enjoying the sanity I have gained from sticking to regular meals. In one way, I don't really 'have' to lose weight, I'd just like to shift 10lbs(!) so my hope is to almost forget about the weight (which won't come naturally) and just enjoy the day to day and then, perhaps, there might come a day when I realise I'm lighter. We shall see!

all the best, I look forward to following your progress :)

Bluebell
Posts: 633
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Location: Hampshire UK

Re: Fellow Newbie!

Post by Bluebell » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:08 pm

ModBod wrote:Hi Bluebell... I'm new too! I started No S as of last Friday (31 Sept) and it's going pretty well. The no snacking has been wonderful - to not be crazy about food all day, and to then really enjoy proper meals has been a breath of fresh air.

I find the 'no sweets' the challenge, and have ended up having dessert on Tuesday (we had guests and it was hard to say no) Wednesday (I watch Great British Bake Off and find it impossible not to eat SOMETHING! It'll be good when the series finishes!!) and then yesterday I was just 'Craving' something sweet... I think I had under-eaten during the day. Each of these I didn't see as 'terrible' because they all came as part of my evening meal, so I still avoided snacking and didn't have seconds.

And then today I'm making a cake for my husband's birthday tomorrow - and who could resist cake batter?! So. Not exactly 100% success, but I'm trying to see it as a process, and the fact I haven't snacked for an entire week - other than this cake mixture! - I feel is a pretty big victory to get me started.

I hadn't thought I'd join this message board as (no offence to everyone!) I didn't want to 'waste time' on the internet. But actually coming on and reading messages just now has stopped my licking out the cake bowl turning into eating everything in the kitchen, so I think it could well be the extra bit of support to help me keep going.

I think, like you, I am used to seeing dramatic results on the scales for a week or two at the start of some grand healthy eating plan that I try from time to time (before everything fizzles out!) so I am trying to be happy with simply enjoying the sanity I have gained from sticking to regular meals. In one way, I don't really 'have' to lose weight, I'd just like to shift 10lbs(!) so my hope is to almost forget about the weight (which won't come naturally) and just enjoy the day to day and then, perhaps, there might come a day when I realise I'm lighter. We shall see!

all the best, I look forward to following your progress :)
Hi ModBod good to hear from another newbie! Glad to hear you are taking the slow sensible approach, it sounds like you are making a good start. I am ok with the sweets but find it hard not to snack. Had 4 perfect days in a row and then today I cracked and had a square of dark chocolate and a handful of unsalted nuts. Trying not to look on it as failure, more a work in progress!
Unlike you I have about 35lb to lose so its hard not to get disheartened at times.
I have been re reading the kindle book which has really helped. Apparently a 1/2 pound a week loss is about right, so its more about the marathon than the sprint and changing habits as you go. That's a hard concept for me but I'm willing to give it my best shot.
Bake off is, I agree, a torture, but at least on this I can bake at weekends (and eat the results!)
We also have a birthday celebration this weekend in the family, good job its my S weekend coming up!
Good luck to you and let me know how its going.

bunsofaluminum
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Post by bunsofaluminum » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:32 pm

Hi Bluebell! you're in the right place.
Good support here, all the time.

1) the scale...The best advice I ever got was to get (back) into the habit of stepping on the scale every day. It removes the fear AND the hope, of what might be there. I see that my weight fluctuates naturally by about three lbs up or down, and I don't worry about it. Anymore. The once a week thing can be really discouraging if you don't lose (or worse, gain...as I did at first.) But every day removes the fear. You'll see it go up and down, and stay put. Big woop.

2) calorie tracking....You can still do that if you want. But include the 2000 calories ;) that you might take in on an S day. Don't stop on an S day JUST BECAUSE you have reached a calorie limit, though you might stop for other reasons, such as feeling full enough, or having great satisfaction and not wanting more. Give yourself permission to eat what you want, and count the cals if you must. But don't deny yourself on S days even if the calories are high.

3) S days: Oh my goodness DO NOT BE RESTRAINED on an S day! enjoy it 100%, eat whatever you want, as much as you want. Don't deny yourself these very wonderful days of reward and enjoyment. I've even seen Reinhard remind someone who blew it on a Friday (N day) and she wanted to not have an S day on Saturday to make up for it...take the S day, and thoroughly enjoy it. You'll learn pretty quick...your body will tell you...when you overdo, and S days will come into line.

4) Others have mentioned it, but find the habitcal page and start you a calendar. It helps SO MUCH to be able to look at a month's worth of green...or, when the red days come along too often, it helps me see that, too. This will help you develop the habit, and that is the most important thing.

Just one more thing: This is NOT a quick weight loss scheme. It is a change in life, but you may just gain sanity about food in a quick hurry. You'll learn that those hunger pangs between meals are not dangerous, do not really hurt, are not to be feared, and that you are stronger than them. And...you will lose weight. It will take longer. I've been at this since mid May and have lost four lbs. Less than a pound a month, but the food sanity is so valuable to me, I won't go back.

OK now I have officially made myself look like a fruit loop, are there any words of advice for me? Embarassed
If you've made it this far thank you for reading! Very Happy
but way to go, for reaching out! you're setting yourself up to do this!

Bluebell
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Location: Hampshire UK

Post by Bluebell » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:38 pm

Bunsofaluminium thank you so much for your well considered and positive reply. I needed to hear that actually!

Getting on the scales everyday, I had thought was a big no no. But the way you describe it could actually make it a positive thing. So rather than building myself up for a weekly weigh in and being either ecstatic or disappointed, its just normality. Hmmmm, I will try and get my head around that!

And also reassuring to hear that calorie counting is OK, I struggle not to do it but usually if I go over my allowance I am tempted to completely blow it. So destructive and a bit ridiculous now I come to write it down. I guess that my S days take away the need to do that.

I also take on board what you say about slow weight loss. Thank you for being honest about your weight loss so far. I know I need to sort out my relationship with food and I really do want this to happen, so I guess I need to 'just keep swimming' as Dory would say! And make following the plan my priority rather than dramatic weight loss that never stays off in the long term.

I am finding this forum so helpful to get all my thoughts down and really do appreciate everyone's help and support. It feels like food is the one area of my life I have never managed to sort, I have a wonderful husband, children, friends and family, a job I love, I am so blessed but I need to do this now. For me. Before I get any older!

Thanks again. :D

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Merry
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Post by Merry » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:41 pm

What a great post! I'm so glad you listed out your questions and fears here--all very normal!

1) I'm in my 11th month on No-S, and I can relate to so many of your thoughts--in fact, I just came off a plateau of several weeks, and even though I've seen No-S work so well since I've been on it, and even though I've actually had a 5 week plateau in the past, I STILL had the irrational fear that "maybe No-S has stopped working for me!" Thankfully, early on I told myself that I wouldn't worry about any lack of weight loss unless I got to the 3-month point--and then at that point, I would think through how I might need to modify No-S. Both times that I hit plateaus, that's how I combatted this thought--It hasn't been 3 months yet!

So, I say the same to you--don't worry about lack of weight loss this first week--habit is king & the only thing to look at. If you go 3 months and don't see any losses, then think about whether you might want to modify something.

You may even want to consider whether your primary goal these first few months is just repairing your relationship with food--and make weight loss a later goal. I know we all want to lose weight yesterday, so it's hard to think about that though!

LOVE how Bunso summed up weighing: "It removes the fear AND the hope, of what might be there." Weighing daily does this for me too. If I'm suddenly down 2 lbs. in one day--well, that's just plain silly! You don't lose 2 lbs. of fat in a day! Similarly, you don't gain 2 lbs. of fat in one day either. You might retain water (I notice this if I have a lot of salty foods that previous day), or on a Monday after the weekend S days, sometimes it will be up without being true weight gain--weighing daily helps me take things with a grain of salt and understand my trends over time. I know weighing daily upsets some people and makes them want to give up though--so I think on this one you just have to know yourself and how you'll respond.

2) This did diminish for me over time. I just reminded myself I didn't need to count--gradually I did it less. Sometimes I do pay some attention to calories when eating out--though other times I ignore there too.

3) SO normal to fear that S days are going to sabotage everything! And it's also normal to have some crazy S days. I found after about 2 months, that these settled down. They can still be somewhat crazy for me sometimes--but they are not often like they used to be.

Some interesting things happens on No-S:

You start to notice that you don't feel good when you over-indulge

You start to notice that some sweets are too sweet, or that you want less of them to satisfy your sweet tooth. (I actually shared part of a candy bar with my kids one day because it seemed too sweet. It made me so happy that I could share it happily--and not begrudgingly, which might have been my thought prior to No-S)

You start to notice what your "full" indicators are (I NEVER could understand intuitive eating in the past--I was never "full." No-S clarified that for me with the one-plate rule, and after several months I actually started noticing even on S days when I didn't really want seconds or snacks. Again, bizarre behavior for me!)

All that to say, eat and enjoy your family celebration, and say goodbye to food rules. Just enjoy good food and good company, and rest knowing that you've got a good structure in No-S. Things will come together in time.

4) No-S is pretty forgiving. And, you either followed the guidelines or not. Right or wrong is simply green, yellow, or red for the day. The HabitCal tracker is a wonderful tool!

Enjoy your new journey!
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
Respect Moderation

Bluebell
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Post by Bluebell » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:09 am

Hi Merry and thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply. This board is proving to be full of supportive and helpful folks!
It is very reassuring to hear that you have been doing this for 11 months and have had to live through plateaus of weight loss. You have certainly shown stickability! This is what I need to learn, that this plan is not a quick fix as I have been so used to doing, but a plan for life.
I love your idea of giving it a few months to just sort out my relationship with food. That has really put things in perspective for me and I will definitely take that on board.
I am going to step on the scales more often after everyone's advice, to remove the 'status' of what they say, if that makes sense. For some reason, somewhere along the way I have picked up the message that this is wrong, but actually I can really see how it would help!
So many of my misconceptions are being turned around by No S!
And finally, I am ready to enjoy my S weekend without guilt, thanks to everyone's kind reassurances. What an amazing thing for me, to legitimately indulge on a regular basis, no more 'Saint or Sinner'.
I wish you all a wonderful S weekend and thank you so much again. :)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:56 pm

I am coming up on seven years. I recommend having as many other reasons to eat moderately besides weight loss as possible. Although there are "weigh-ers," over the years, I have seen many, many people leave because they couldn't take the slow weight loss. There is a thread devoted to people who left and came back. Many weigh more than when they started No S. And although we have some who eat sweets more often, I have to say I have also seen many more failures of people who thought they could eat just a little every day. But it's a personal call. I would caution against "premature optimization," as Reinhard calls it. Give your body and mind several months to adjust to the lifestyle. Do not make decisions out of panic. I think almost anyone who adopts a long term modification would admit that they probably couldn't have had the same success if they hadn't discovered from experience that they needed the adjustment.


Please stop dreading wanting to eat too much on S days. It is absolutely normal to want to overeat restricted highly palatable foods. (But it's typical to want to eat more of them even when they aren't restricted! So might as well learn to deal.) Some people escape this, but many don't. If you assume it means you will always do it, you will drive yourself crazy. I at first would stay up until midnight (NOT canonical nor recommended) to tuck into a 20 oz bar of chocolate that I would finish before the weekend was over, as well as eating pancakes with syrup and other stuff, too. But NOT overeating on weekdays was such a big improvement that I didn't let it get in the way. And sometimes, I purposely reined in my desires. I didn't expect to never want to eat too much, to be one of the extremely small number who never think about food unless it's time to eat. That is NOT how slim cultures do it. Be willing to sometimes want to eat more without doing it. Ignoring urges to eat more is a good way to reduce their influence when you are actually getting regularly fed with at least some pleasurable foods.

Give plenty of attention to how much you enjoy your meals! And sooner or later, how much you enjoy your gaps between meals.
Last edited by oolala53 on Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Count plates, not calories. 10 years "during"
Age 67
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8
3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux
6/21 22

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

ModBod
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Post by ModBod » Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:22 pm

Very helpful advice! I'm really benefitting from this thread, too - it's so encouraging to get the long-term perspective.

Whosonfirst
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Post by Whosonfirst » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:32 am

Merry and oolala53 are great cheerleaders for NoS.
https://twitter.com/SipeEngineering
Current weight(9/2020)-212 lbs.
Goal Weight- 205 lbs.
NoS Goal: >= 80% Success days

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Merry
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Post by Merry » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:13 am

Whosonfirst wrote:Merry and oolala53 are great cheerleaders for NoS.
Aw, thanks! It really has improved my life in many ways, and I'm thankful for the changes.
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
Respect Moderation

ModBod
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:00 pm
Location: Europe!

Post by ModBod » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:54 pm

Hey, Bluebell, are you going to do a 'daily check-in'? I've just started one and think it'll help keep me motivated towards the end of the week when I am tempted to cave! :)
I'm looking to lose about 12lbs...
31.09: 65.7kg/144.8lbs, BMI-25.7!
14.10: 64.9kg/143lbs, BMI - 25.4!

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:26 am

My duty as I see it.
Count plates, not calories. 10 years "during"
Age 67
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8
3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux
6/21 22

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

Bluebell
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by Bluebell » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:42 pm

I have just returned to this thread to remind myself of the many wise words written by all of you committed No S-ers. Coming to the end of a very - ahem shall we say - S weekend! - which has followed an equally very No S week - I was beginning to panic a little.
And then I read through all your advice - give it time, get the habits down, don't panic, this is a long term solution not a quick fix. It is enough to limit myself in the week at first. I just need to knuckle down and get this No S habit ingrained.
Half term here in the UK which means that tomorrow is my first Monday at home with my kids, eek! (I work in a school so have all the holidays at home with my boys) More temptation to snack, and have sweets, but I am determined to stay strong and get through to the weekend.

oolala53
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:59 pm

Remember that sitting down mid-morning for a cup of coffee or tea (or beverage of choice) is a very civilized and adult way of having a "snack."
Count plates, not calories. 10 years "during"
Age 67
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8
3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux
6/21 22

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

Bluebell
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by Bluebell » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:15 pm

oolala53 wrote:Remember that sitting down mid-morning for a cup of coffee or tea (or beverage of choice) is a very civilized and adult way of having a "snack."
Thank you, I will definitely do that when feeling deprived! :)

Lilbec
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Post by Lilbec » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:53 am

LifeisaBlessing wrote: I have no "S days." When I originally did vanilla NoS, S days always caused me to backslide.
Sorry to hijack your thread Bluebell but I just posted in another thread about my fear of S days throwing me off course, and what LifeisaBlessing has said really resonates. Thank you, I am now definitely doing this too.

LifeisaBlessing
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Post by LifeisaBlessing » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:30 pm

Lilbec wrote:
LifeisaBlessing wrote: I have no "S days." When I originally did vanilla NoS, S days always caused me to backslide.
Sorry to hijack your thread Bluebell but I just posted in another thread about my fear of S days throwing me off course, and what LifeisaBlessing has said really resonates. Thank you, I am now definitely doing this too.
Thanks for the shout out, Lilbec, and welcome to the NoS boards! :)
I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination.
~Jimmy Dean

The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective.
~El Fug, on the NoS Diet

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Merry
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Post by Merry » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:59 am

Bluebell wrote: don't panic, this is a long term solution not a quick fix.
Nice way to sum it up!
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
Respect Moderation

oolala53
Posts: 9782
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:46 pm

Actually, S days are any day any S of any size is allowed, so technically, those who have a small sweet every day have S days every day, not no S days. They just don't have no holds barred S days, and those were never meant to be permanent. There is always the option of having mods to any days, as long as they are consistent. :)
Count plates, not calories. 10 years "during"
Age 67
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8
3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux
6/21 22

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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