MJ7910 starting over again - hoping to learn this time

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:48 am

Been struggling to get started again, but I know it is the best thing for me. For a while I have tried to count calories online tracking systems, and I fail because I get obsessed with it. Once I go over I start eating mindlessly. So I start over today. Not too horrible today but I can't get over eating when not hungry.

Tomorrow is an sday. But really going to try to not go nuts. That is my goal. And to understand I only eat when hungry. But overall I know putting too many rules on it will make it difficult. I could count today as day 1 but instead i think we'll do tomorrow as day 1 because today I didn't come to the decision to do NoS again until just being so fed up with calorie counting and exercise that I wanted to scream.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:26 am

So even though I got back on here Jan 25, I had trouble committing to NoS because i was still using a calorie tracking system and still felt I needed my evening treat. I realize now that this holds me back because it makes me crave more treats/snacks. So I either have to do this NoS thing completely or not do it and keep doing calorie counting. I read over the intro stuff and I realized that calorie counting does truly drive me crazy. I know what I want to eat for breakfast and lunch, but dinner is where I fail. I eat my dinner and then start eating a dessert. Sometimes I can stop there but other times it leads to more and more. If I can stick to just my dinner for the evening and maybe just had tea later I think that would keep me from overdoing it. I'm so tired of the overly full feeling. Also need to discover new things to do when i am just craving things and not really hungry. I need to rediscover hunger and come to terms with it being ok to be hungry! And wait for the next meal. Because it's ok to wait. I can always drink some water.

HoeHanna · Post by **HoeHanna** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:42 am

A lot of people use fruits for dessert. I personally like chocolate so I have invented my own little treat made out of dark hershey's cocoa (no sugar in it), some pecans, a dab of butter, a spoon of milk and a little Truvia nuked in the microwave in a little bowl and set it on my plate. If I take extra long to eat my plat of food and 'pause' for a few then finish the shocolate part of my plate, I feel like I had dessert. Sometimes an orange is all I need though, plus it's a whole lot easier.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:36 pm

I'm so glad now that I don't eat a sweet every day. It's just too easy to want more, they replace more satisfying (to me, now) foods, and it's to easy for them to make me too full later. I just don't enjoy a little square of chocolate or the like very much.

Still have mocha with stevia.

HOld on! You will be so glad in six months, even if S days are still not an oasis.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:03 pm

I think the problem I really have is always wanting to feel overfull, it's some kind of comfort to me to be overfed. I don't understand why because the next day I feel bad. Then I get all the bloating and yuck feeling that hangs around until I have about 3 good days. Then I binge again and restart cycle. So i think the first step for me is about eating a normal sized meal, stopping and being ok with that. Being able to say "here is the meal" and then stop. So perhaps I need to experiment with actually putting everything on a physical plate when i think I'm going to rationalize having more stuff. And I think I'm with you about skipping the treats. It would be nice if I could actually stop with one square of chocolate but I know that's not going to happen. For beverages I need to stick with coffee with almond milk and stevia or tea. Otherwise I coudl start rationalizing rich coffee beverages with milk, chocolate, etc which really is no better than a dessert. Today is an S day but I'd like to reach the end of it not feeling all bloated and gross from overeating. Maybe once I can get the structure down of 3 meals then I can be more liberal with S days. Today I plan on having lunch with a dessert - going to a restaurant; and then dinner I want to have pretty normal as possible. maybe something small if I feel like it but not that overfull feeling. I know that's what's triggering me, thinking I can rely on that feeling.

So a thought I had was maybe make S days Intuitive eating days. that way I can ask myself if I'm really hungry and become more aware of what foods I actually want to eat and not just eating something because I should cram in all the sweets and treats possible because "this is my only chance". Might be something worth trying... In fact, if I were to think about what I want, what comes to mind is a chocolate dessert. I could allow myself one of those today on my S day but then if there was no other treat that really comes to mind, there is no reason to eat mindlessly. I think this might be the way to go. N days, enjoy my 3 meals, make them things I like (but no sweets, seconds or snacks) and then that way when S days get there I can practice intuitive eating those days (not mindless, cram it all in types of days). Definitely worth a try!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:05 pm

It took awhile for me to get there on S days. Sometimes I do it ad hoc, sometimes I purposely have the same 3-meal structure with no additions because nothing sounds good enough.

The hardest thing for me to deal with was that I was hungry fewer times a day on S days because I ate either a bit richer food (because I would eat out and that is what attracted me on the menu) or a sweet. I wouldn't get hungry very easily after that but I still wanted to eat! Even now (almost noon after veggie soup around 8:30 a.m.- not hungry but didn't want to skip breakfast), I could imagine going and nibbling, but I'd have no appetite at a reasonable time, so I'm holding out. My routine these days is to have just salad or veggie soup at meals if I don't actually feel hungry but want to reinforce the structure. If I keep up with the light foods, eventually, I do get legitimately hungry for denser foods., and I usually feel the better for it. but I had to get very tired of eating too much before I could hold out. Still not a cinch, but better than the alternative.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:48 pm

so today turned out interesting. this morning just had a banana, protein bar and tea... went out to lunch with a friend . had an egg bake, croissant and chocolate dessert, later a few bites of brownies. had a few mocha coffees as well. time for dinner now (6:40 and i'm not hungry). the whole idea was intuitive eating today. your'e right oolala53, when you eat richer foods you are not as hungry for dinner. so i kind of wanted to have something else on my S day but i was thinking an apple or something... maybe greek yogurt. maybe a piece of pizza if i ever get hungry! so this is a good thing. maybe it's ok to just wait til i'm hungry to eat meals. imagine that realization. i am way too structured with "it's 7 am...it's 11:30 am...it's 5pm time to eat"
tomorrow may be hard but i think it just means get good and full for breakfast, lunch and dinner! no extras. this is my first 5 day week actually attempting this for real. NO tracking calories! I tend to want to because that has been my mindset since August 2011. I lost 27 lb on my fitness pal and gained 13 back.

if i really want to lose the last weight i have to come up with a reasonable plan, which i think this is.
exercise has never been my problem, i always manage to get some form of exercise in. ok going to do this. wish me luck!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:55 pm

I don't suggest you go for eating for hunger during the week, though over time, it will be gratifying to eat just enough at meals so that you get hungry for the next one. Same goes for meals on weekends, though it can be more casual, in the sense that it isn't as if you've worked all day and eaten only what's necessary; if you miss a meal, no big deal, since you probably had plenty. Later that may change as you realize you like eating more often and are willing to sacrifice the amount at any one sitting.

You're already learning!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:00 am

i fully anticipate for the week i will do ok monday (due to eating a lot sunday) and tuesday (maybe some hunger) and then wednesday i will be hungry! thursday, friday same thing... so i probably should be advised to stay clear of the idea of intuitive eating during the week. but i think it could be doable during the weekend.

so i finish Sunday 2/3 as a SUCCESS... of course how could it not be, it's an S day!

But right now I am not overfull to the point of uncomfortableness which is a start. That is what I want on Sdays, satisfaction without feeling horribly bloated and out of control full.

Throughout this whole process (including the 21 day induction thing... ) I would love to if at all possible avoid the feeling of overfullness. Today I drank too many mochas and had the feeling of nausea/over caffeine/over sugar but actually not overfull. Felt a little sick from so much sugar/caffeine so that's a learning process right there.

For the next weekend I guess I just need to play it by ear because we are having company over. But I want to think of some well planned treat possibly there will be an opportunity for that. My visitors are both very dieting types, and one is a calorie counting accountant type like i used to be, so I can't imagine they will understand what I'm doing. They will probably wonder why I'm allowing myself a treat and stuff... as I never do that when they are there usually.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:49 pm

First N day. Didnt' anticipate how eating so much the last few days would give me this uncomfortable too much acid feeling in my stomach. like it just wants to digest something but there is a lot less food there!

i have to make it to lunch, that is my next objective! just had a protein bar, banana, and tea for breakfast. planning on a bigger lunch.

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:54 pm

Hang in there, MJ, it does get easier with time!

SpiritSong · Post by **SpiritSong** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:43 pm

MJ, one of my problem times is betwen breakfast and lunch, so I know I need to pay special attention to my breakfast. Not the amount, but what I am eating. For example, if I have just carbs, I'll be hungry in a couple of hours and want to kill someone by lunch. So I am making sure I try to get some protein, fat, and fiber in, if I can.

This is just an example of how we learn to manage our hunger as we progress through the No S Diet, so please don't be afraid that you will spend your days hungry all the time. You'll figure out what you need to eat in order to be able to make it through.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:43 am

2-4 Success

Breakfast: Banana, protein bar, tea
Lunch: Chicken with peanut sauce, greek yogurt, apple, fiber bar
Dinner: Soup, small breakfast sandwich, 1 piece pizza

I know this sounds like a lot but i don't think it actually was. Then I ended up wanting tea so i had tea with almond milk and a dash of sugar/stevia.

I consider this a success. If i can have my decaf tea with almond milk and a dash of sugar/stevia every night instead of snacking that sounds pretty good to me. I wouldn't mind that at all.

Oh and came to another conclusion about calorie counting and why it doesn't work for me. I used this website, worked for a while, but then i started to get obsessed with being just under a number like for example 1500 or 1600. Once I went over, even if just 36 calories over (or in the red, that evil red number) I would rationalize having more just because I already blew it. Or if I was a little under in the green I would think of what I could have to still be under but have a little extra. Even if I was not hungry! What good is it to constantly be ruled by a number? It's not. So no matter what I set "that number" at, it wont' work because i'll always want to get the best of it. if i go over, it sets me up for failure because i "blew it"... now, i have to be careful when/if i have a slip up on No S to not let it take over.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:35 am

Just worry about getting the meal habit down for now.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:37 pm

yes i agree that is the most important thing. maybe for a while i will eat a little more than i need to but maybe that's me making up for snacks and sweets! 3 meals today, i can do this!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:22 pm

Realizing that for me it's more about all or nothing thinking... started to feel snacky but instead had a coffee with a tiny bit of creamer and a stevia. Sad to admit i've had a few coffees today. Not full fat mochas, but coffees, with a little sugar, stevia, milk, etc. Sure it's some calories but it's not a snack. Which means still success.

When I say it's about all or nothing thinking, I feel like it's about the idea of even having to mark a RED. Like i just want to always have greens because i'm trying so hard, shoudln't it be a green! So I was reading about someone having a nibble and how they realized it's a red now. And a lot of people say Mark it and Move on. but for me the red is like this huge looming disaster. That's why calorie counting didn't work for me. Even one calorie over = red. so these coffees i've been having woudl put me over if i was doing calorie counting. but i'm not...

I wonder if maybe what I need is an adjustment in my thinking and gradient of success/failure. Of course a success is a 10 - meaning the way I am doing, sticking to my meals... but what would constitute the other numbers? Would 1 be a failure? Or would it mean all out overeating, feeling stuffed, ridiculousness... or my New Years Eve 2012-13. I can definitely remember that day as a 1. Felt so stuffed that I was nauseous. 2 is definite gluttony... 3-4 moderate gluttony, like not stopping myself but still feeling like there is room to not let it go really really badly.

Wonder if that would work better for me. Like making the goal a 10. But if I do mess up so it doesn't turn into all hell breaking loose, maybe have gradients... like 5 would be overdoing it for sure but being able to stop... 6-7 might be snacking just a little and stopping myself (like a few little nibbles). 8-9 might be bending the rules a little more than I think is good (like having a glass of juice or something more caloric for a beverage or something, or maybe if I would have put a few extra sugars or creamers in the coffee)... but the scale could be up to me. I could be the one truly judging. That way it's not all or nothing thinking.

Today is still a 10 because I haven't snacked. I have had 2 coffee beverages but each had a minimal amount of cream and sweetener. So I think that's good.

Ok so to sum up my N day scale:
0 - I will never get this because I am always trying!
1 - not a good day, overeating to the feeling of uncomfortableness or feeling very out of control.
2- Not stopping myself per se, but also not feeling sick but very very very full...
3-4 - moderate gluttony - recognizing that i could have stopped but keep going.
5 - middle of the road. did indulge a little more than planned, but was able to stop after comfortably full.
6-7 - snacking but not that much (few nibbles of whatever)
8-9 - beverages were a little more than they should have been, almost to the point of a snack (signifcant sugar, sodas, heavy juices, etc).
10 - complete success. stuck to 3 meals, no snacks, no seconds, no sweets. May have had a few beverages with minimal sweetners or milks/creams.

I think I like it! Of course not using this on S days but it will help me to quantify things...

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:45 am

today ended up as a success - level 10!

ran 4.2 miles!
ate a rather large dinner knowing i would need a little bit of fuel to run.
but didn't count calories.

finished up the night with a nice white tea and no hunger. great feeling!
planning a lighter workout tomorrow. maybe yoga or some light circuit training. depends on how much my legs hurt post run day.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:07 am

Success level 10 today!

Few beverages, nothing heavy or over sugared.
Small breakfast, large lunch and dinner, no snacks!
Circuit training workout, but not over strenuous after yesterday's run.

2 more days. Would love to make it all week green

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:16 am

Good for you, MJ! You give me hope!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:32 pm

Today has been good so far. Except now I am really struggling to get to my exercise for the evening. I know I'll do it, just having a lazy moment.

Today I would say was a level 10 success. still had 2 coffee beverages and 1 tea... more than i would have liked, but it definitely beat snacking!

Really enjoying focusing on other things instead of food all the time. No idea what will happen this weekend but I'm ok with that. It may actually be better that away. Seems like when I was in "diet mode" I always tried to plan too much anyway. could never go to a restaurant without knowing what was lowest in calories. i got very tired of that! felt like i couldnt' even enjoy going out to eat anymore.

i know tomorrow will be a challenge but I'm ready for it! if i can get through tonight and one more full day then it doesn't really matter what happens saturday or sunday... i can't possibly mess up S days. I love that about them! and saturday is my 'rest from exercise' day which means total relaxation and eating whatever/however i want to. got to keep this in mind rest of today and tomorrow. how proud i would be if i made it to saturday with a completely green first week back!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:59 am

OK got my exercise in! So pleased. Green tea and then bed. Not hungry either. Winning! And not in the Charlie sheen way.

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:17 am

Thanks for the encouragement, MJ, and I also like your idea of scaling success - I do feel that sometimes I have to give myself a red when i actually feel that for me, I did very well, and then marking a fail is very painful. And can lead to the WTH effect. So this is a way to counteract that, by at least giving yourself a "grade" on how the day went. Brilliant!

Good job on getting your exercise in!!

Have a great Friday!

SpiritSong · Post by **SpiritSong** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:30 pm

Go, MJ! Green into the weekend!!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:15 pm

oh i am trying so hard... really want to get something good for dinner tonight. think i'm going to try to go to a fast food place like maybe subway or something that has moderate food choices. i have to do some thinking about this.

it would give me a lot of confidence if i could make it to saturday with an entire green week... please don't self sabotage now!

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:06 am

You are doing great!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:20 am

I am going to make this day a success. in a little bit i will go to bed with 5 straight green days. no matter how crazy my Sday is tomorrow, it doesn't matter because it's an Sday. If I make it a week through this I know I can do this for a lifetime... Even if i mess up here and there i have the motivation to do this!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:47 am

Friday was a success - level 10. Felt very tempted to finish my leftovers after dinner but b didn't.

Onto today. Weigh in at 131.6. Not bad. Would like to lose a few more pounds as I consider 120-128 maintenance. Weighing monthly now, well every 4 weeks. Hoping to not go up over the next 4 weeks, but I know it happens so we will see.
Great sday. Got all my treats in and still not stuffed. Great feeling. Also someone who is still calorie counting had the day with me and could see how she was limiting herself to certain things on the menu, not really being able to get what she wanted, just like I used to do. Makes me feel bad for myself that I never got to enjoy any meal for the last year because of worrying something was too many calories.
Didn't have to try to do extra exercise because I ate badly. A true rest day. Felt great.

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:44 am

Way to go, MJ!

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:30 pm

Congratulations, MJ!! Seems to me you have learned lots!

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:44 pm

MJ7910 wrote:Friday was a success - level 10. Felt very tempted to finish my leftovers after dinner but b didn't.

Onto today. Weigh in at 131.6. Not bad. Would like to lose a few more pounds as I consider 120-128 maintenance. Weighing monthly now, well every 4 weeks. Hoping to not go up over the next 4 weeks, but I know it happens so we will see.
Great sday. Got all my treats in and still not stuffed. Great feeling. Also someone who is still calorie counting had the day with me and could see how she was limiting herself to certain things on the menu, not really being able to get what she wanted, just like I used to do. Makes me feel bad for myself that I never got to enjoy any meal for the last year because of worrying something was too many calories.
Didn't have to try to do extra exercise because I ate badly. A true rest day. Felt great.

No S is such freedom!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:54 pm

sunday was a pretty heavy eating day. had to stop eating around 8pm for a blood draw tomorrow and i definitely had a good share of my favorite foods in today. good thing i stopped too because pretty full right now! definitely the higher end of full. but that's ok. sday and no rules! but somehow i feel a little bad about the overindulgence. maybe that gets better over time. but i'm not going to let it get me down. tomorrow i'm back to Ndays! going to have my breakfast after the blood draw. shouldn't be too bad to have it later since i have to.
today was still around the person doing the calorie counting and i have to say it's amazing to see how she is having to look up every last thing before eating it to make sure it "fits in her calories for the day". it runs her whole life (well, eating wise anyway but i guess in some ways socially too because it limits to some extent what restaurants she can eat in). can't imagine going back to that now. even though it's only been a week it felt like i got free from a prison this week and weekend.
i also decided to cut out all diety stuff from my life. stevia is the only sweetener i will be using besides sugar because i have heard bad things about the others so i think limiting them could be a good thing.

Plan for tomorrow. realize more Sdays are coming next weekend. have 5 great days of 3 meals a day.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:37 am

so what is interesting is i think over time i will start to think whether something is "s worthy" meaning "do i really want this?"... what was nice about today was i reflected a little bit (even though I ate a lot) about whether i really wanted to eat the item or not.
so happy i have 1 week under my belt. i'm doing the best i can 1 day at a time and that's all i can tell you. last time i gave up too quickly but i think i can make it work this time. my plan is sticking to my 3 meals, making them healthy and satisfying. i am a little nervous and i tend to self sabotage. i really want to have another good week. i know it's in me. and we are doing our valentine's day stuff saturday instead of this week due to our jobs so not going to take an sday for thursday, even though i could.
on s days i will just do whatever for now, try to listen to hunger cues as much as possible and try to not be frantic or overeating every second of the day! this weekend was a little wild but i did stop overdoing it when i felt overfull so that is a step in the right direction. just focus on ndays for now and try to not feel guilt! getting away from that stupid guilt feeling is the first step in breaking the diet mentality.
not going to worry about changing anything on sdays for a while if ever. they may just take care of themselves, that is what others say. and the fact that i'm trying to figure out if something is "s worthy" is probably a good thing. like "do i really want to eat these gross french fries just because i can?" and stuff like that. so i guess that is about 5 weeks of Sdays, right... since weekends don't count toward habit that would pretty much for me be through february and into the first part of march. will try for that. tomorrow will be an Nday and i just have to give it a really good effort. also really want to run again tomorrow and so if i hope to get 4.3 miles i can't be overfull and feel nasty.

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:35 am

I do think S-days get better by themselves, if you have the fortitude to and faith to relax until they do. Hang in there and have a great week!

Jonas Jonasson · Post by **Jonas Jonasson** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:07 pm

I had way too much coffee to be able to write sensible stuff (e.g. I was just thinking I hope you are a dwarf - "I consider 120 maintenance") but I just wanted to tell you that - otherwise

- I can relate to what you wrote about your S-days.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:23 pm

oh i know i wont' ever get to 120! i just want to be in the "120s" I was there before (123-128) from Feb 2012-June 2012 before binging got the best of me. So I know I can do it again! I am pretty short, 5'4" and have a small frame. my wrists are only 5 1/2 inches!

when i was 150 and barely into 'overweight' people thought i was closer to 180 because that is what being small framed does to your body composition when you gain any weight. right now i probably look about 140-150, not 132.

anyway today is the first day back after a very indulgent weekend. goal is making these Ndays great so the habit kicks in. Not going to start changing Sdays even though I"m tempted to. I eat what I want on Sdays, when I want... i did discover the feeling of overfull is horrible so I just need to be choosy about what I really want. I think over time it will even out!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:12 am

2-11 success! Level 10 - really wasn't even too hungry today as is the case usually on Monday as I have so much from Sunday and Saturday.

Also ran 4.3 today. Working up to 5 miles by April and 6.25 or 10k by June.

I think this weekend will be a lot of fun. Planning on valentines day Saturday which works perfectly. Just got to focus on 5 great days! 4 more to go.

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:14 am

Good for you!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:08 pm

Thank god for lent! at least i can blame something for my not eating of cake throughout the week!

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:45 pm

Good planning and good processes, MJ!!

Good work!

Jonas Jonasson · Post by **Jonas Jonasson** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:03 pm

okay, I have converted you units of measurement
5'4"" seems to be about 1.62 and I seem to be about 5'9" in your world (so, technically speaking you are a dwarf

or I am a Germanic giant) this puts the 120 into perspective

I like your mantras about your S-days. My S-days are by no means perfect but I can live with that. I am constantly looking for real treats but this is quite difficult. I tried to make double chocolate cheese cake muffins on Sunday but they were really disappointing (and I learned another thing about different sizes/measurements: 12 muffins does not seem to be the same as 12 muffins, I had tons of batter left). I usually end up having bites/slices/bits of all kinds of stuff searching for the real thing. What kind of really nice things do you have on S-days? A good question for a late Tuesday afternoon (in my part of the world)

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:17 pm

Jonas Jonasson wrote:okay, I have converted you units of measurement
5'4"" seems to be about 1.62 and I seem to be about 5'9" in your world (so, technically speaking you are a dwarf or I am a Germanic giant) this puts the 120 into perspective

I like your mantras about your S-days. My S-days are by no means perfect but I can live with that. I am constantly looking for real treats but this is quite difficult. I tried to make double chocolate cheese cake muffins on Sunday but they were really disappointing (and I learned another thing about different sizes/measurements: 12 muffins does not seem to be the same as 12 muffins, I had tons of batter left). I usually end up having bites/slices/bits of all kinds of stuff searching for the real thing. What kind of really nice things do you have on S-days? A good question for a late Tuesday afternoon (in my part of the world)

ok so far i have enjoyed really good stuff on my Sdays. cheesecake... brownies, cookies.... but i dont' usually get the storebought ones. i usually go to a good gourmet brunch places and have a dessert. i try and not buy stuff to leave sitting aroudn the house because that could be bad! so things like that - delicious, wonderful things that i don't have very often. i try to not waste it on things i dont' really like. i love chinese food so i got some crab rangoon this weekend. i try to get single serving stuff so that it's not tempting me later in the week. this weekend probably will get a few slices of cheesecake (single serving, small ones) so i can enjoy those without having an entire cake around the house. we have some valentines' chocolates but tryign to only take the ones i really want.

overall - i ask myself - what do i REALLY want? not "what is available" because that way i'm not wasting it.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:49 pm

really funny how you can think you're going to do fine and then that inner voice "oh just have this other thing... " pops into your head . i ended up doing fine today, just got to make it the rest of the day, do my exercise, etc.

but it's funny how you can have all the intentions right but be so close to a slip up..

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:42 am

I suspect I would have made a good snake oil salesman.

When my inner voice starts jabbering away at me, I promise myself later, AT MY NEXT MEAL,

to shut that voice up. I have made the most fantastic promises to myself which I seldom keep.

Because by the time I prepare & eat a fabulous home cooked totally nutritious delicious and GINORMOUS healthy meal, I usually don't give a rats ass about whatever my inner demanding child was previously pitching a fit for.

Delayed gratification is like a muscle that gets stronger with use. I am getting very very skilled at saying "later" to myself. And when "later" never seems to come, it's difficult to feel hard done by when I have a full belly and am not at all hungry.

Hang in there, MJ. You really are doing fine!!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:13 pm

I ended up with a Success for 2/12. But it was down to the wire. I finally got off my butt and did my weightlifting.

But I was thinking about that little voice some more, and how she wants me to just eat this other things, and sometimes i do, other times i don't. i like the idea of making the promise for "later"... or sometimes I'll say to myself "oh come on, you don't really need more food" which can calm me down... sometimes.

So i made it 2/12. I really want to have another green week this week. It would make me feel pretty good.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:42 pm

since i started this on 2/3 i have been having some random thoughts going around in my head...

i was thinking of the Sdays like intuitive eating days. then i was reading a post about how IE can trick you sometimes like saying "i want chocolate" constantly all day. so i thought, maybe not.

then i saw something about how Sdays don't have to have a structure but you can have them have approximately the same structure as Ndays with a dessert or something thrown in. and that appealed to me. i love structure, always have.

i also have been thinking about when i eat my dinner i still have this panicked voice in the back of my mind "what if this isn't enough? what if i'm hungry again soon?" and so then i make sure i have enough on my dinner plate. but in reality, i could have tea or almond milk or something if i was feeling hunger.

and why is hunger so feared in our culture? when i was a kid we had to wait for lunch at school, i remember being very hugnry sometimes. but it was ok because i knew i would eat at some point.

i grew up in a large family. we only had a limited amount of food. if you didn't get "while the getting's good" you didn't get it. so that's kind of how i have been taught to view food. clean the plate, make sure your eyes aren't bigger than your stomach (taking more food than you want), etc.

so i noticed on my Sdays i was saying to myself "it's ok, you don't need to get it all now. it will still be there tomorrow and probably even until the next weekend of Sdays. and if it's not, buy more on the Sday."

i dont' want Sdays to feel like an emergency. so i think i'll get there and i'm not saying i want to modify Sdays but maybe a little structure of basic meals woudl be good (if i want that on that particular day). i do have a small child so i do need to keep somewhat on her meal schedule anyway...

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:44 pm

MJ, I had a very similar experience growing up in a large family. I also grew up with a mother who was also always see-sawing between restrictive diets or bingeing on baked goods...so I didn't have a great role model for balanced behavior around food.

I also keep the basic structure of regular meals on my S-days, just here and there I add seconds, a snack or a dessert through the day.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:03 pm

maybe i can give that a go on saturday and sunday. i felt a little out of control and didn't like it. maybe just sticking witht he basic structure with the idea that if i want to i can have something extra may be more beneficial to me.

Jonas Jonasson · Post by **Jonas Jonasson** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:42 pm

I am also trying to do this, usually (you should note that I am a very experienced NoSer, I have lived to see four to five S-weekends at least),
my Saturdays are much better because the habit carries over and they are somehow similar to my N-days and Sunday nights are worst when I am rotating trying to get a bit of various goodies before it's too late.

My memories of mothers and diets: They smoked while sizzling (frying) in the sun to get a really dark tan (inside and outside, probably). Oh well, the late 70s/early 80s

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:25 am

yes i don't have many No S plan weekends behind me either. so like i said, trying to not change it too much, maybe just pay attention to not being ridiculously full and just enjoying things instead of having the frantic feeling. Maybe if i can just focus on enjoying my treats instead of just cramming food that would go better! But no mods yet... just more awareness I guess is the term for it.

Today was a close one. Still Success, level 10 but i got pretty close to a 9 with my beverages today. After dinner had a 2/3 full glass of almond milk and then 1/2 glass of regular milk, followed by white tea. i don't know if i didn't eat enough or if i just panicked .. because i'm not really hungry and not sure why. i think i wanted something else (like a snack) but just subbed in the milk so i could have something. anyway still counting it as ok because neither of those beverages seemed extreme so it's all good.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:02 pm

training all day today so i'm hoping that will make it easier... sometimes it doesn't though. we have to wait until 12noon to eat! i hope i can do that successfully! i can, i know... i'm usually a 7am breakfast, 11-11:30 lunch kind of gal though...

so tonight is valentine's day. i considered making this an S day but I dont' really see the point since we're not technically doing our Vday until Saturday. So I'll play it by ear but I feel like I will choose to not make it one. I need to get some solid weeks of green in there and I feel like an Sday on a Thursday might throw it off a tad. I can probably just give my husband his card and we'll do our actual valentine's day dinner a different time.

i think i will make a soup for dinner, probably have some bean and sweet potato chips with it, a salad and some form of meat on bread or gluten free burrito. that seems to be kind of standard for my dinner. i'm doing a cardio dvd so i want to have enough energy too. i was weightlifting again last night and having a little bit of trouble getting through it so i want to avoid that feeling.

As far as counting to 21 days i kind of fear it. anyone who knows AA structure/rules probably knows that there are some in recovery who dont' like to count clean days because then they are more likely to mess up. so it's kind of that philosophy for me. just like when i see my weight going down or up... which is inevitably every time i weigh myself! it tends to throw me off and make me want to overeat. counting days kind of makes me self sabotage. i know this is a mind trick i just need to get over but still... like i wonder yesterday if i just wanted to have a nonsuccess because then that would take the pressure off... i'm not sure.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:34 pm

I suspect the better we plan, and the more conscious we are acknowledging the choices available to us, positive & negative, the better our decision making to allow us to reach our goals.

Happy Valentine's Day!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:55 pm

Yesterday 2-14 Success

Actually didn't have too hard a time yesterday, despite thinking I would due to valentine's day. Having that all day training really helped get my mind off of food. I guess I did go to starbucks after work but just got a black decaf with minimal cream and sweetener so i don't count that.

Feeling pretty good going into the weekend but hoping i can hold out today. If I can do next week I may be able to say I had 21 successful days. But I don't want to get ahead of myself just yet. Next week I am starting a new position at work and so that could cause some stress. I just want to be aware of it because in the past things like that caused major overeating. Just be aware and notice it is the goal. But try my hardest to not let it drive me to eating bad stuff.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:39 pm

It's getting to be Friday afternoon and the song ... "Give me something good" is going through my head with regards to food!

Tomorrow I can have all I want. The glorious feeling of an Sday tomorrow. Tonight is my daughter's dance class so I plan on feeding her early and then going to her class with her. I"m not sure what that will mean for later tonight but trying to keep an open mind. I am hoping to not be hungry and have some delicious tea again.

Tomorrow I plan on a nice breakfast and see where it goes from there. Might make some cheesecakes in a muffin pan using greek yogurt. still experimenting with the recipe so who knows how it might turn out!

and giving blood on saturday so if i have some of the delicious snacks, so be it!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:05 am

Success today 2/15 - just need to make it to the morning, which i'm confident i can do!

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:55 am

Congratulations on your successes, MJ!! You make (& are keeping) good plans!

In my books, Greek yogurt is a woman's best friend! I wish our store would get some in.

Have a great (and FUN!) weekend!

Jonas Jonasson · Post by **Jonas Jonasson** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:12 am

Congratulations on the new position - maybe the structure of NoS can help you to cope with the stress. You can do it!

Have a colourful weekend!

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:03 am

Good job on the green day!

Enjoy your weekend!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:53 pm

thanks everyone!

well yesterday was an Sday and as always i find saturdays a bit wild. for some reason saturdays have seemed to be worse because i feel so ready for a treat, that i tend to go overboard. for instance, today is sunday and i've had pancakes, banana, protein bar for breakfast... pizza, soup for lunch and a lovely little brownie treat. don't know what i'll do for dinner but i dont' want to feel overfull like i did yesterday so i'm taking it a bit easier. tomorrow i have a physical with my dr. so i think i will try and not overdo it but just have fun the rest of the day!

i really want to get a good week next week but i know i have to focus one day at a time. also i start the new position next week and i'm hoping that doesn't lead to overstressing myself. but we shall see. just taking it as it goes.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:39 pm

Today marks the beginning of my third Nday week... meaning if i get to friday i have made it through the trial period.

So i really want to do that but i know doing each day at a time is very important!

Today is Monday 2/18 and being the day after 2 very rich Sdays, I did pretty well with my appetite not getting the best of me. So it's past dinner time and i plan only having tea if anything else the rest of the day.

Ran 4.4 miles. but was having some calf pain. probably because i haven't run outside in so long and my body wasn't used to it.

tomorrow may be a bit of a challenge . going to this place that is a german restaurant with a buffet. my plan right now is to either get the buffet and fill one plate, that's it... or get an entree not on the buffet and that's it. i guess we'll see if the buffet is overrun with sweets and breaded/fried stuff and that will make the choice for me . ideally i'd like to get meat, veggie, fruit (as long as it's not dessert like) and some carb. a good little plate. but who knows what this buffet will consist of. also i know the way people offer desserts at these things is highly annoying, "oh here, try this, etc"... i'm grateful it's lent because i can say i gave that stuff up for lent but at some point i probably have to say i dont' eat desserts during the week if more lunch stuff comes up... we will see.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:33 am

Congrats on your 3rd N-day week, MJ!!! Already that is a huge commitment and huge accomplishment! You'll definitely make it through to Friday to complete your 'trial period'.

And good luck with the buffet tomorrow.

I think you are on the right path, already planning how you are going to successfully navigate that embarrassment of buffet riches!

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:59 am

Good luck with the German buffet, MJ. It seems like it will be a challenging situation. But whatever happens, try to look at it as a learning experience rather than a life-or-death dilemma that you absolutely have to get right. And be sure to enjoy yourself with the non-food aspects of it: the other people, the fact you don't have to cook yourself, the surroundings...

I'll be curious to hear how it went for you.

Jonas Jonasson · Post by **Jonas Jonasson** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:28 am

Yes, tell us how you handled it.
I'd also love to know what kind of stuff there was on the buffet.

I was reminded of your thoughts about the pressure/self-sabotage thingy the other day, sometimes I want to fail just for the sake of it, if you know what I mean, not because I really want something. But this also means that it is only in my head. I sometimes seem to think that I "deserve" a red day. Weird.

4.4 miles - not bad

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:10 pm

know what you mean about sabotage. i know today is going to be challenging and i could just do whatever and get a fail but i really want to make the commitment and i know i can if i take each day at a time. i have "failed" so much on old diets that i'd like to just get these habits down even if it takes a awhile and even if i do have a red day... but i really want to avoid that. it does feel like the stress is reduced with a red day sometimes. but i still want to see if i can do it this week. There were times yesterday where i wanted to snack but i didn't somehow. and now with Sdays it feels weird to be eating during non meal times. i'm not thinking about mods yet but if i did i think maybe keeping the same meal structure but throwing in a dessert somewhere... or something. because it is weird to give myself permission for a snack when i know during the week i wouldn't do that.

Jonas Jonasson · Post by **Jonas Jonasson** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:44 pm

I bet you'll be grand tonight.
Remember the other thread: We DO have self-control, and it is usually easier when there are others around, at least for me - and there seem to be some similarities

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:56 pm

well lunch went just fine. despite a lot of desserts i just got one buffet plate and filled 1/2 the plate with salad and green beans. the other half i got sausage, a little red cabbage and about a tbsp of macaroni and cheese. i think i did pretty well, considering!

the buffet looked good but i am not into potato salad and cabbage so that was easy for me to turn down. also didn't want to overcarb my plate.

got back to the office and more cake! but i didn't do that either. just said no. it can be done!

update - just ate dinner, oatmeal with greek yogurt, apple, protein/fiber bar as flavoring in oatmeal... along with apple butter/pecan syrup... didnt' think any of thsoe were really sweets, but i really wanted something to counteract lunch that would be fruity and delicious. i think this is ok. and i didn't have cake or cream puffs so that's a success!

2/19 - Success!

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:20 pm

Way to go!

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:38 pm

Good job on tackling that buffet! I think the key is you planned ahead what you would do, then you worked your plan! Also the cake at work, if it really looks good, you can take some home and freeze it for Saturday. You resisted!! KUDOS!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:39 pm

i'm sure the cake was good but it was nothing special - a nice storebought one but not really worth going to the trouble of taking home, freezing and eating later. if i want cake this weekend i'll just get it from a nice little bakery or something.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:43 am

MJ, awesome!!!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:53 am

I think I'm going to ask my doctor for a vitamin D test.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:45 pm

you should! made a world of difference for me!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:58 pm

today 2-20 has been a success so far but i feel really anxious today. i started a new job this week and it's been tough to move into the office and get set up. i hope i like it but who knows. it's the same building i used to work in, but different department/boss, etc. tomrorow is training from 9-1 so hoping i'm not starving when it's over. i plan on packing a pretty basic lunch since i dont' have much space in my new office. i have a microwave but no fridge. was thinking of bringing a little cooler in and then everday i can bring an ice pack to keep my lunch cold in the cooler... not sure how i'll do it actually.

dinner i went to chipotle and got a burrito. but that is all i had. didn't get guac or sour cream. pork, lettuce, tomatoes, beans, veggies, minimal rice, minimal cheese. so i think even though it's fast food to some extent, at least it's better fast food and really pretty healthy... but it was the only thing i had so it's not a fail... just was feeling really weird after work and felt like getting myself a little treat.

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:26 pm

If you're going to do fast food, Chipotles is the healthiest I think. You are doing great, keep it up!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:37 am

I wouldn't worry about fast food at this point. I ate a lot of fast food in the first year. I didn't always eat the whole serving. though. I felt full but not stuffed after my meals. Even then, I would have felt stuffed an hour after a whole burrito from Chipotle or anywhere else.

I have brought my lunch to work with me for 14 years and never refrigerated it nor gotten sick from it. I do sometimes throw in some frozen veggies, but not always.

Have to admit I've never brought hard boiled egg yolks or anything with mayo, but just about everything else.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:46 am

Good luck with the new job, MJ. I'm quite sure it won't take you long to find your balance!

Your self-awareness is excellent. I enjoy your ongoing evaluations of No "S" & how to fine tune it to best serve you.

Keep the faith. You are really doing a good job!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:21 am

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Two more ndays this week. We can do it. No bs, I have worked so hard to monitor my inner thoughts, esp regarding food! I am getting better at it. I can tell when I am feeling binges coming on. I went with chipotle only because I felt that if I did get what I really wanted then I'd be less likely to eat a sweet or snack later.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:30 am

Yes! Looking forward tofoods I felt were special helped me many a time.

Amy3010 · Post by **Amy3010** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:14 am

Good luck with your new job - it sounds like you have been doing really well dealing with the stress and not letting it influence your eating behaviors. Good for you!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:48 pm

thanks everyone. the job is just in the "honeymoon" phase right now. meaning i have no idea what it will be like until i've been there a few months. oolala53, you were right. my food stayed perfect in my bag all day, just put a icepack on top and bottom of the cold foods and they were still cold. my greek yogurt didn't melt either, so that was nice!

thank god tomorrow is friday, really and truly. this weekend will give me some time to think about things. it's been quite a week.

oh and today 2-21 can be a success - has so far. done eating dinner, now just need to do my workout which i feel pretty motivated to do.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:39 am

MJ7910 wrote: I have worked so hard to monitor my inner thoughts, esp regarding food! I am getting better at it.

There is no easy way out from the honest & tough self-examination & introspection necessary for us to succeed at these deeply personal challenges. But the rewards are tremendous.

Congratulations on all your hard work, MJ. It always seems worth it when Friday & the weekend arrives and we are happy with how the week went & at peace with ourselves for our own best efforts!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:01 am

The thought processes are where the real work happens, IMHO. It's an inside job. That's why having all the "tips" in the world won't work if I'm not willing to face down the thoughts that could take me off track.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:03 am

totally agree with you oolala53 - in fact that is what was happening to me today! so many times i almost lost the battle. I wanted to eat a snack around 7pm-10pm... finally i fell asleep and woke up just before midnight . Since it is technically saturday now i had a small plate of treats and some of the anxiety is gone. when i fell asleep briefly friday night 8-11pm i dreamed i went off of noS a few hours too early and didn't make my 21 days... wow!

i dreamt of a cinnabon last night! so i have one i was saving for tomorrow. had about 1/4 of it after the midnight hour with a few other small doled out treats. now i feel less anxiety. tomorrow i can go with the flow more and eat when/what i want. didn't gorge myself on treats either just because it's "after midnight and now i can have stuff".

that anxiety on fridays is tough right now. i think it will get easier.
also feels like maybe i've gained weight but i'm not weighing until april. my usual jeans were a bit too tight today.

but it's ok because i know if i keep exercising just like before, once i get the habit it will help me in the long run.

So now I've made my 21 days after this weekend (which i can't mess up since they're Sdays). next plan, work on "dont' be an idiot" and what that means. want to do the 3 meal a day plan on Sdays - of course if i'm really hungry and need a snack that is definitely ok. the key is listening to myself and my hunger cues.... and most importantly, not being an idiot! my first few Sday weekends were quite wild and i think responsible for any weight gain i'm seeing. small and well picked S events will be the way to go. and no self punishing talk.... all of this will help me a lot.

getting the 21 days done really helps give me confidence that this will work for me. even waiting until midnight saturday has helped me flex those "waiting" muscles! feeling great and hoping i can work on "dont be an idiot" this weekend! few little bite sized sweets to ease the anxiety and anticipation and now feeling great about the choices i make

My first successful 21 days! Awesome!

2/4 - Day 1 - really started yesterday but it was an Sday!
2/5 - 2
2/6 - 3
2/7 - 4
2/8 - 5
2/9 - Day 6 and an Sday!
2/10 - 7 another Sday
2/11 - 8
2/12 - 9
2/13 - 10
2/14 - 11
2/15 - 12
2/16 - 13 - Sday
2/17 - 14 - Sday
2/18 - 15
2/19 - 16
2/20 - 17
2/21 - 18
2/22 - 19
2/23 - 20 will be an Sday so can't fail!
2/24 - 21 another Sday so can't fail

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:41 pm

FABULOUS job, MJ!!!

That is an incredible accomplishment!! Good on you!!

Simply amazing what can be done when you put your mind to it

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:14 pm

Step by step.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:20 am

Want to make Sundays different from Saturdays from now on. I think its OK to have Saturday as little over the top if it means I feel I have gotten most of the indulgence out of my system. So I guess my first kinda sorta mod is one of the sdays is like an nday with maybe a few extras. Over time I know they will get better. But want to change things a little since I know I can do the basic meal structure. Tomorrow I want to just have nday structure with whatever extras are within reason.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:36 am

MJ

Your rational, thoughtful, step by step evolution with No "S" is going a long way to ensure your ongoing success. Keep up the focus & the good work!

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:27 am

Now that I've made 21 days I am starting my new check in thread with some mods! Just minimal and reasonable ones, I believe.

http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9235