I read through Oolala's post about Olympic runners and it seemed to tie into some thoughts I had yesterday.
It started when I read (online) that Anthony Quinn's son Francesco died last year at 48 while running with his son. While not his father, Francesco had a nice film career that included "Platoon", and more recently a role in "The Glades."
We read about seemingly healthy, athletic, adults (and sometimes "kids") who die instantly during exercie. I read an article in Runner's World, by an author who wrote that his best friend dropped dead during the San Francisco Marathon at the same moment the author was snapping a photo of him. In his book "Running Scarred", Tex Maule republished a letter to a newspaper sent by a doctor who's best friend died during a solo run in the early 70's. Of course we all know about Jim Fixx.
So, what do some of you think? Is exercise "dangerous"? What are your opinions?
Is exercise "Dangerous"?
Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating
Is exercise "Dangerous"?
Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
You pale in comparison to Fox Mulder. - The Smoking Man
I made myself be hungry, then I would get hungrier. - Frank Zane Mr. Olympia '77, '78, '79
You pale in comparison to Fox Mulder. - The Smoking Man
I made myself be hungry, then I would get hungrier. - Frank Zane Mr. Olympia '77, '78, '79
There is a common thread to all of your examples. All victims died while engaged in chronic cardio - Intense cardio for long stretches at a sustained heart rate in the 80+% range.
Although many engage in chronic cardio without any ill effects, folks with congenital problems may die while engaging in this form of training.
To be sure, have your doctor give you a stress test.
Although many engage in chronic cardio without any ill effects, folks with congenital problems may die while engaging in this form of training.
To be sure, have your doctor give you a stress test.
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
- Vince Lombardi
Sometimes you need to take one step back for every two steps forward.
Time heals everything!
90% of a diet is 60% mental
- Vince Lombardi
Sometimes you need to take one step back for every two steps forward.
Time heals everything!
90% of a diet is 60% mental
I think a lot of people have undiagnosed heart problems that suddenly become lethal during the stress of exercise. These aren't necessarily the high cholesterol/heart attack sorts of things, but structural problems within the heart or with conductivity.
There are any number of documented cases of athletes, both amateur and professional, dropping dead during exercise. On autopsy, many have been found to have some kind of previously undiagnosed cardiac abnormality.
I'm not sure that a stress test would necessarily show potential problems. It may take some of the more advanced diagnostic procedures. The problem with that is cost, and insurance might not cover the cost.
Is exercise dangerous? Light to moderate exercise isn't. But humans weren't designed to run long distances, crash into other humans, and many of the other things we do for sport. Humans were designed to stroll -- or maybe ride a bicycle.
There are any number of documented cases of athletes, both amateur and professional, dropping dead during exercise. On autopsy, many have been found to have some kind of previously undiagnosed cardiac abnormality.
I'm not sure that a stress test would necessarily show potential problems. It may take some of the more advanced diagnostic procedures. The problem with that is cost, and insurance might not cover the cost.
Is exercise dangerous? Light to moderate exercise isn't. But humans weren't designed to run long distances, crash into other humans, and many of the other things we do for sport. Humans were designed to stroll -- or maybe ride a bicycle.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
I don't know about the others, but Fixx didn't die of the exercise, per se. He had heart disease. Running doesn't necessarily prevent heart disease, but it doesn't cause it. On the same day Fixx died of heart disease, probably a thousand other people did, too, but they weren't exercising.
I think some of the excessive exercise that people do isn't actually to their long term benefit. It's hard on joints and may have other deleterious effects as well, but we have so few subjects to study in comparison to the large numbers of the sedentary, so we may not know. Then again, some of the long-lived cultures in the world are pretty active. I don't know if what they do is analogous to long distance running. Personally, I'm suspicious of marathon training.
I think some of the excessive exercise that people do isn't actually to their long term benefit. It's hard on joints and may have other deleterious effects as well, but we have so few subjects to study in comparison to the large numbers of the sedentary, so we may not know. Then again, some of the long-lived cultures in the world are pretty active. I don't know if what they do is analogous to long distance running. Personally, I'm suspicious of marathon training.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
In recent years it has somehow become a general fad to run a marathon or perform in Iron Man-type triathlons or take "Boot Camp" fitness courses. I can't imagine why this is--it doesn't make good sense!
I do think that exercise can be dangerous or at least harmful if taken to extremes. I have had my joints flare up to the point where I had to give up exercise completely for awhile, and I was by no means an overachiever.
I have seen obese people taking Boot Camp classes and looking so bad that you weren't sure whether you should call the paramedics. I think this is an effect of the "Biggest Loser" mentality. People begin to think that to lose weight, you should be killing yourself.
What you're really doing with that kind of program, IMO, is setting yourself up for having to go the gym every day or regain. If you think you can go to the gym every day for the rest of your life, then that's great... But at some point, you may not be able to. What will you do then?
I do think that exercise can be dangerous or at least harmful if taken to extremes. I have had my joints flare up to the point where I had to give up exercise completely for awhile, and I was by no means an overachiever.
I have seen obese people taking Boot Camp classes and looking so bad that you weren't sure whether you should call the paramedics. I think this is an effect of the "Biggest Loser" mentality. People begin to think that to lose weight, you should be killing yourself.
What you're really doing with that kind of program, IMO, is setting yourself up for having to go the gym every day or regain. If you think you can go to the gym every day for the rest of your life, then that's great... But at some point, you may not be able to. What will you do then?
Whether it be in terms of various diets or exercise, it's occurred to me that we've become a nation of extremists. It's the Puritan mentality taken to the extreme. It's not enough not to find pleasure in eating (or whatever), we have to experience pain or deprivation. The more pain or deprivation we can endure, the better we will do; the better we are. Well, hogwash.JayEll wrote: I have seen obese people taking Boot Camp classes and looking so bad that you weren't sure whether you should call the paramedics. I think this is an effect of the "Biggest Loser" mentality. People begin to think that to lose weight, you should be killing yourself.
Until about a month ago I lived near one of the Boot Camp gyms. I passed it every morning when I was walking the dog. Often the members were coming out for a run. You're right -- many of them looked like they were or would shortly be in need of medical attention. There were a couple of 40-something men whose appearance concerned me!
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
>>>humans weren't made to run long distances...<<<
Bernd Heinrich, in his book "Why We Run" gives a good argument that humans are made to run. Some of us are constructed to run, in fact the Tahoe to Auburn endurance race now has people out running the horses over the 100 miles.
However, I think humans are individually unique and have physical "gifts" (maybe not the best word) that allow the most talented of us to excel in many different areas of physical pursuits, whether it be endurance or strength, etc. I have known a couple of people in my life who had both incredible endurance and were abnormally strong.
I think this is an interesting topic. I don't agree with the "exercise is bad crowd", or the "lifitng weights one day a week is all you need" crowd (although I do once every so often go that route...), but I do think moderation is the key.
Bernd Heinrich, in his book "Why We Run" gives a good argument that humans are made to run. Some of us are constructed to run, in fact the Tahoe to Auburn endurance race now has people out running the horses over the 100 miles.
However, I think humans are individually unique and have physical "gifts" (maybe not the best word) that allow the most talented of us to excel in many different areas of physical pursuits, whether it be endurance or strength, etc. I have known a couple of people in my life who had both incredible endurance and were abnormally strong.
I think this is an interesting topic. I don't agree with the "exercise is bad crowd", or the "lifitng weights one day a week is all you need" crowd (although I do once every so often go that route...), but I do think moderation is the key.
Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
You pale in comparison to Fox Mulder. - The Smoking Man
I made myself be hungry, then I would get hungrier. - Frank Zane Mr. Olympia '77, '78, '79
You pale in comparison to Fox Mulder. - The Smoking Man
I made myself be hungry, then I would get hungrier. - Frank Zane Mr. Olympia '77, '78, '79
Over 2.4 million years humans evolved taking long slow walks (looking for food and/or shelter) with occasional sprints (run after prey or runaway from predators) and heavy lifts (carrying hunted game to the cave).
Exercise within these parameters should be OK for most people.
Exercise within these parameters should be OK for most people.
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
- Vince Lombardi
Sometimes you need to take one step back for every two steps forward.
Time heals everything!
90% of a diet is 60% mental
- Vince Lombardi
Sometimes you need to take one step back for every two steps forward.
Time heals everything!
90% of a diet is 60% mental
Yes, exercise is dangerous.
Not exercising is more dangerous.
I think the key to keeping the inherent danger of exercise to a tolerable level is moderation. It's still possible to injure yourself no matter how careful you are. But aiming for a "sustainable minimum of compliance" will improve both your odds of actually doing it and your odds of doing it safely.
Reinhard
Not exercising is more dangerous.
I think the key to keeping the inherent danger of exercise to a tolerable level is moderation. It's still possible to injure yourself no matter how careful you are. But aiming for a "sustainable minimum of compliance" will improve both your odds of actually doing it and your odds of doing it safely.
Reinhard