Everyday Systems

So, I'm just wondering what tips you have for dealing with hunger that isn't just the odd pang, but is a result of the ol' fat cells getting really tired of not being as full as usual, and rebelling on N days by not pouring any nice "feel satisfied" hormones into the blood stream after you've eaten a perfectly adequate plate of food. (For example, after a breakfast of optimized oatmeal that is not small, I am starving!) I tried upping exercize so I could eat more and still lose, but my appetite went into hyperoverdrive at that point. I try to eat high satiety foods like fruit/veg/oats/dairy. If anyone has any tips, please share!

I'm not sure that I could have done this initially, but now I ignore hunger. It's not an emergency and I'm in no danger of starving before my next meal.

Having said that,I've noticed two things: 1) when I eat a "good" breakfast, I'm much hungrier than usual the rest of the day. 2) if I add more fat to the meal, this happens less often. The fat can come from butter or oil or foods higher in fat, like eggs.

Everyone is different, but I have protein at pretty much every meal or I get hungry. Works for me.

Oatmeal makes me ravenous by 10AM, even a goodly portion of steel cut oatmeal with nuts and dried fruit. Instead, I have a small serving of full fat yogurt with a piece of fruit and a little cereal or whole grain toast with peanut butter.

I have no idea why this happens and the research I've read indicates it shouldn't happen and it doesn't happen to other people I know. But it is what it is.

I too say add protein if you optimized oatmeal has fat already, from nuts or whatever. And when exactly do you feel starved? right afterwards? That can't be starved.

I highly recommend having a milky beverage partway through the morning. You may find after awhile that you don't need it anymore, but it can help keep the meal portions moderate while staving off cavernous hunger.

I realize that it's highly unlikely to kill me, or even to do any lasting harm to a person without any metabolic diseases (talk to your doctor, if you have diabetes or something like that).

One way we know this is that several religions have fasting as part of their observance. We Jews just had Yom Kippur this past Saturday, where we fasted (including not drinking water) for 24 hours. We've been doing this annually for thousands of years. Other religions also have fasting as part of their traditions. If a one-day fast were really likely to be harmful, that tradition would have died out a long time ago. Many of these religions have exemptions for people who truly would be harmed by fasting (I know Judaism and Islam do), but most people do not qualify for these exemptions.

Treat it the same way you treat the feeling of "I'm bored, I want to eat". It's not going to harm you to not eat for a few hours, even if you are genuinely hungry.

Your body may eventually get used to having less food. I've found this to be the case for me, though it did take a while to happen. Like a few months, not days.

like another person mentioned I might have som milk if I get REALLY hungry. This rarely happens anymore for me though.

Thanks, Everybody, for your replies.
I DO drink a few late's with whole milk, no sugar in the mornings, so don't want to add to that.
I think my take-home message is that hunger is OK, just a feeling and one I guess I'd better get used to if I want to lose wt, and perhaps maintain a lower wt.
I keep reading on other sites that you can lose wt and "never be hungry again" but I think that might involve regular snacking and might not amount to me losing wt at all!

osoniye wrote: I keep reading on other sites that you can lose wt and "never be hungry again" but I think that might involve regular snacking and might not amount to me losing wt at all!

I think that "never be hungry again" is not really what you want too! Because there is nothing more satisfying that eating a good meal when you are acutally really hungry.
Before No S I tend to see hunger as an emergency as well, used to pull out some food during my classes (which I always considered unpolite, but well, it was an emergency situation for me!!). I still have to say to myself "this is NOT going to kill you!" but over time it get's easier to "embrace the hunger pangs"..

I am beginning to like my hunger between meals. It reminds me that I'm not eating like a fool. I distinctly remember being hungry between meals as a kid and occasionally asking for a snack. My mom always told us to go back outside and play, because she wasn't going to let us spoil our appetites for lunch/dinner. We lived through it just fine then, and I'm discovering that I live through it just fine now. I just have to go back outside and play (or walk, prune roses, etc), instead of hanging around the kitchen and thinking about food.

oolala53 wrote:
I highly recommend having a milky beverage partway through the morning. You may find after awhile that you don't need it anymore, but it can help keep the meal portions moderate while staving off cavernous hunger.

osoniye wrote:Thanks, Everybody, for your replies.
I DO drink a few late's with whole milk, no sugar in the mornings, so don't want to add to that.
I think my take-home message is that hunger is OK, just a feeling and one I guess I'd better get used to if I want to lose wt, and perhaps maintain a lower wt.
I keep reading on other sites that you can lose wt and "never be hungry again" but I think that might involve regular snacking and might not amount to me losing wt at all!

Hmmm. Then I wonder whether it's actually the lattes that are making you hungry. Could it be something to do with the caffeine? Just a guess, mind.

Maybe try having something different for breakfast? Or maybe you actually do need more for breakfast? I saw the words 'perfectly adequate' in your post and wondered whether you still had that old 'diet head' on - the one that tells you that eating less than you need at a mealtime is a 'good thing'. As a relative newbie to No S (found this place a couple of months ago now) I'm coming around to the view that in the early days of No S, you can't let yourself get overly concerned by the idea that you're eating too much. I crashed and burned the first time I did No S because I tried to reduce the amount of food I was having at mealtimes too soon.

osoniye wrote: I try to eat high satiety foods like fruit/veg/oats/dairy.

I re-read the post and for the record, these aren't MY high satiety foods. Are you sure they are yours or do you just think they should be based on something you read?

@Blithe Morning- interesting question about the filling foods- some of the above really are my filling foods- fruit and dairy, like apples and cottage cheese or plums and yogurt are very filling combinations for me. Salads can be. But the oatmeal is probably in the "supposed to be" category. I mean, when I added up the calories of the oats/nuts/dried fruit and the 2 whole milk sugar free late's, it came to just shy of 500 cal. How can all that fiber not be filling??!!!
What are some of your personal high satiety foods?

Re: high satiety foods. I just got back from a work trip and nearly every morning at the breakfast buffet I helped myself to scrambled eggs and smoked salmon on toast. That combination saw me right through 'til lunchtime, but unfortunately I can't afford to eat smoked salmon every day at home! Baked beans on two slices of toast is a good, filling option for me the rest of the time, though I'm going to go for scrambled eggs tomorrow morning and see how I do on that.

Thanks for thoughts on filling foods, Violet. Wouldn't it be nice to eat salmon every day!
I agree about the eggs. Not so sure what the effect will be on my cholesterol, but I have been having 2 lots of mornings, as that does seem to carry me longer. I've found that pumpkin is a good filler these days, for pretty few calories.
I'd love to hear some other peop's favorite filling foods!

I don't think fiber is the answer. I know a number of people who eat high fiber diets and they eat constantly.

While this article isn't about finding the foods that satisfy you, her experience is interesting: A Vegan No More.

My satiety foods are full fat dairy, peanut butter and wheat.

wosnes wrote:I don't think fiber is the answer. I know a number of people who eat high fiber diets and they eat constantly.

While this article isn't about finding the foods that satisfy you, her experience is interesting: A Vegan No More.

I should add that the author of the article was eating huge quantities of high fiber foods, and was always hungry. Lots of fiber doesn't keep you full for long periods of time. I'm acquainted with a number of vegans who also eat very low fat and they eat frequently.

osoniye wrote:Thanks for thoughts on filling foods, Violet. Wouldn't it be nice to eat salmon every day!
I agree about the eggs. Not so sure what the effect will be on my cholesterol, but I have been having 2 lots of mornings

hi osoniye
i wouldn't worry about the eggs raising your cholesterol. i think excess body fat has more effect and as you lose weight, it will help lower your cholesterol.
why not buy a large salmon fillet once a week, and bake it.. then slice into small pieces and keep in the fridge? having even an ounce or two, would probably help you feel much more satisfied. you could also make it into salmon salad, with some mayo and veggies and eat it on toast.
good luck

Blithe Morning wrote:Oatmeal makes me ravenous by 10AM, even a goodly portion of steel cut oatmeal with nuts and dried fruit. Instead, I have a small serving of full fat yogurt with a piece of fruit and a little cereal or whole grain toast with peanut butter.

I have no idea why this happens and the research I've read indicates it shouldn't happen and it doesn't happen to other people I know. But it is what it is.

Gosh, I am so glad I'm not the only one who has this problem with porridge. I am always famished by the middle of the morning too if I breakfast on oats. I've aften wondered why this should be.

Protein for breakfast works for me, although I can put up with a little hunger until lunchtime.

If I have eaten in a reasonal time period before the hunger pains, I ignore it (actually welcome them as it shows my body is using up the food I am giving it rather than storing it).

If I haven't eaten for a long period of time,
I eat.

Thanks to all who responded for your comments and input.
I think with the oatmeal, it ISN'T filling for me, but I eat it a lot of normal work days and I am distracted by my work and don't think of hunger or cravings. Then when I eat it on a day that my work is not so engaging, or when it doesn't involve other people I am SHOCKED by how starving I feel. I think the takehome message is, not to eat from boredom, but to make sure on days I'm likely to be bored that I eat an adequate breakfast not involving oats because there will be no distraction from hunger and then I will be miserable!
I LIKE the idea of having a small amount of salmon around to ad a luxurious and filling touch to breakfasts.
Also like the wheat, peanut butter, dairy connection... sounds like a yummy sandwich and glass of milk to me!!
Hope that weight loss can help keep my cholesterol down, as I DO enjoy eggs!!

Oatmeal isn't filling for me unless it has plenty of cream and butter in it.

But as far as hunger goes, I go by my own knowledge of my own body. I know when it's just ordinary hunger that gnaws at my stomach for a few minutes and goes away and the feeling that tells me I must eat. I don't get it often, but when I do, I don't ignore it. I eat and immediately feel better.

Hunger I acknowledge and then proceed to ignore it. I am juvenile diabetic so if it's a blood sugar low I drink some OJ. That pretty much sums it up for me LOL.

Used to get shaky when too hungry, but learned to ignore it and I don't get lightheaded and shaky anymore.

wosnes wrote:I don't think fiber is the answer. I know a number of people who eat high fiber diets and they eat constantly.

While this article isn't about finding the foods that satisfy you, her experience is interesting: A Vegan No More.

I read that blog post. Interesting. And it probably explains why oatmeal leaves me ravenous. I think after not eating for 12 - 13 hours (dinner to breakfast) I am ready for some animal protein. Yogurt seems to work for me.

I picked this up from another diet--try protein powder mixed with water instead of milk in cereal. Just make sure the powder is not sugar-filled. There's an easy 20 g of protein right there. You could also mix a scoop in with your milk.

The diet I'm referring to required you to eat every 3 hours, and as it promised, after a week or so, I found myself getting hungry like clockwork every 3 hours. I'm hoping that No S will work similarly and that my cravings at my old snack times will eventually fade.

I'm with Kathi! Protein fills me up loads and gets me through!! And I add protein powder to things sometimes to help keep me going. You can get really good natural organic ones (essentially whey is the liquid part of cottage cheese that has been dehydrayted) and I add it to smoothies, in baking, milk for cereal etc. I find if I don't have a decent amount of protein with every meal, I can't make it through. If I just have cereal I'm hungry in 2/3 hours!
Other thing is.. Diluted juice drunk throughout the day is great! You only have one glass of juice (so only 100cals or so) but diluted to 5/6 glasses. And it prevents blood sugar spikes that juice would naturally create. The extra fluid helps keeps you felling full too!

Another thing that I use is a protein shake. When I workout I find myself really shaky, to the point of passing out once. This is obviously not safe hunger! So after the gym I sometimes have a mini shake. If you're worried about calories made with water it's is about 100 and I usually only have a half. I play it by ear on this, somedays it is not necessary, other days I know I need it to stop me passing out.

I sometimes mix egg white protein powder with milk and pour that over cereal or oatmeal. Really gives it a more stick-to-it-tivness

Nice to hear from everybody!
I'm surprised to hear so much about protein powder and satiety! I have never tried the stuff. I go into a health food store intending to buy some, but the staff usually don't have a lot helpful to say to someone who doesn't know what they're looking for, and the sticker shock sends me running!
Do you find that it's cost effective/worth it?

I like the whey powder. I use it in place of a drink of milk when I feel the need to quell hunger between meals. I can't imagine putting it on cereal or oatmeal though. I use yogurt for that.

And yes, it's worth it.

Lily x wrote:

oolala53 wrote:
I highly recommend having a milky beverage partway through the morning. You may find after awhile that you don't need it anymore, but it can help keep the meal portions moderate while staving off cavernous hunger.

osoniye wrote:Thanks, Everybody, for your replies.
I DO drink a few late's with whole milk, no sugar in the mornings, so don't want to add to that.
I think my take-home message is that hunger is OK, just a feeling and one I guess I'd better get used to if I want to lose wt, and perhaps maintain a lower wt.
I keep reading on other sites that you can lose wt and "never be hungry again" but I think that might involve regular snacking and might not amount to me losing wt at all!

Hmmm. Then I wonder whether it's actually the lattes that are making you hungry. Could it be something to do with the caffeine? Just a guess, mind.

Maybe try having something different for breakfast? Or maybe you actually do need more for breakfast? I saw the words 'perfectly adequate' in your post and wondered whether you still had that old 'diet head' on - the one that tells you that eating less than you need at a mealtime is a 'good thing'. As a relative newbie to No S (found this place a couple of months ago now) I'm coming around to the view that in the early days of No S, you can't let yourself get overly concerned by the idea that you're eating too much. I crashed and burned the first time I did No S because I tried to reduce the amount of food I was having at mealtimes too soon.

This has been my experience. The entire month of November I spent eating whatever I wanted in the context of No S. Sometimes I would go to Golden Corral and fill one plate to overflowing with food.

It's been over a month now and I'm starting to change the way I look at food. Rather than deprivation, I'm looking at it from a wellness point of view. What foods make me feel good and allow me to perform at my best? I'm making better choices now....less calories and more nutrient dense foods. But it's taken me a few weeks to both curb my hunger and also to realize that No S allows me to have Chicken wings and fries with my friends on a random Wednesday if I choose to do so. But I always have the choice and lately I'm choosing to feel better and be healthier. All of it of course, within the rules of No S.

in general, i find tat mixing differnt foods in one meal works for me

if i try to eat more protein and fat, like eggs with butter and other stuff, i get hungry soon , and if i go for more carbs alone, like pasta, or bread, i will feel hunger soon too, i find that independent of what i eat, when i have different foods in my plate, like eggs, with bread and start with fruit, i will feel less hungry.

but independent of that, i think the organism will get used to the new volume, and the hunger will be less strong, i mean, like only 20 mins before the time you commonly eat, at least thats what many people with experience on this diet say, after all, the stomach shrinks after some time, and your body gets used to to the amounts it usually has


i guess is being patient, with time one must get used to

Try Chia seeds. I just began them this week and there is a huge difference in my appetite!

Do you mean you add chia seeds to your meal? How?

I put them in my cereal, on top my salads and even put them in my food. Half the time you might see them in your food but you won't feel them. They have no taste and are full of vitamins and minerals and keep you full. If you go to youtube and type it in, Dr. Oz and others have videos on it. You can add them to just about anything and it's helping me so much!

What does it feel like when you are hungry? It really helped me to consciously go through the symptoms. Mine are (in no particular order - it's not a progression):

a) a mild 'sore' feeling in my abdomen
b) shakiness
c) a feeling of edginess.

I've learned to ignore a). I often go to sleep with a mildly sore abdomen and, bizarrely, wake up the next morning much less 'hungry'.

b) is a real problem. A milky drink often helps, but I've also had to modify NoS to add in some fruit or toast in the late afternoon, otherwise I got too shaky when I was making dinner to last until 7.30 when we eat.

c) used to lead to snacking. Now I've recognised it, I can take a few deep breaths and make it go away before it overwhelms me.

Best wishes

Laura

Most days I get to hungry without ever going through a shaky stage. Some days, I can go 8 hours without shakiness. Other days, I get shaky after 5 hours. I don't get it. But my meal times are actually meal windows for me, though lunch is set on weekdays.

I eat something. I never did believe in No Snacks.

You are lucky you can snack without going overboard. Many people can convince themselves they're hungry when they're just nervous or anxious. Or be legitimately hungry, eat a snack, and eat just as much food later.

oolala53 wrote:Many people can .... be legitimately hungry, eat a snack, and eat just as much food later.

This is me. No matter how often I tell myself to count a snack as part of my upcoming meal, I don't actually do that in reality. So, I basically don't snack, not even on S days, because I overeat (always thinking that I'm NOT) and I don't like that feeling. When I really am hungry and meal time is not yet on the horizon, a glass of milk or a coffee with milk (I normally drink coffee black) seems to do the trick.

@Want2GetHealthy- where do you buy chia seeds, and how much do you use per meal?

@everybody- thanks for replies! I am still struggling with this.
For example, yesterday's lunch I weighed out to see if I could figure out the problem- 3 oz chicken breast WITH skin, 1 oz meunster cheese melted on top, 4 oz brussels sprouts, 5 1/2 oz baked sweet potato w/1/2T butter. I finished eating this full plate of food at 1:05 pm and still felt famished, like "that was a nice appetizer, but where's lunch?". The thing is, there was a good mix of protein, carb, fat, some fiber... I drank 1/2 glass water with the meal... ate without distractions, etc.
I deliberately kept an eye on the clock as I drank my black coffee after lunch to see if I felt less hungry after 20 mins. @1:30 I concluded that my stomach had a little bit of a full feeling, but I really could have eaten the whole lunch over again and enjoyed it. I still felt 'hungry', and not just a craving kind of thing, but like I wanted to feel more full, and "when's the next meal coming?"!
I'm thinking... maybe I need to eat a larger breakfast (I had had an omelet and coffee)? Avoid diet sodas (I average one per day)? Make sure each meal has some soup or something soupy to add weight to the meal? Drink more water?
Looking at the above if anyone has any advice or suggestions, they'd be welcome!!

For example, yesterday's lunch I weighed out to see if I could figure out the problem- 3 oz chicken breast WITH skin, 1 oz meunster cheese melted on top, 4 oz brussels sprouts, 5 1/2 oz baked sweet potato w/1/2T butter. I finished eating this full plate of food at 1:05 pm and still felt famished, like "that was a nice appetizer, but where's lunch?"

Looking at the above if anyone has any advice or suggestions, they'd be welcome!!

FWIW, and it might not be very much , the first thoughts that came to my mind:

1. Up your protein/meat component. I know what you measured matches some suggested portion sizes, and as much as I am for portion-control, it seems like a bit too little. Try 5 oz. of chicken next time. Protein has been linked with increased satiety.

2. Where's the salad? Just kidding--but salads definitely add a "chewy" satisfaction to many meals.

3. Starting a meal with a cup/bowl of soup as a first course is a long-standing, tried-and-true method of filling up without filling out. Go for it! (but only if you like soup....)

4. Adding a piece of good bread (however you define "good") is another long-standing, tried-and-true method of creating a satisfying meal.

HTH,