Everyday Systems

I was a bit saddened and disappointed to inadvertently come across a post in the daily check in section from one of the veteran members of the forum who said it was "luck" that I lost the weight I wanted to so quickly, and even questioned why I'm here.

Ironically, I was really looking forward to "meeting" this poster on the forums because I do respect the advice that she's given to others over the years, sharing her experiences, both the ups and the downs. I wish she would have addressed me directly instead of making assumptions about me.

In any case, I just wanted to clear things up for anyone who might wonder why I'm here:

1. To thank Reinhard for coming up with his brilliant plan, encouraging people from all shapes, sizes, and experiences to participate--even modify the plan if needed.
2. To be an encouraging presence for those who are struggling and think that success isn't possible--it is!
3. To answer questions from anyone, anytime about how I did it--including my dieting history, exercising history, etc.

What may interest others to know:

1. I had over 40 pounds to lose at one time in my life.
2. My dieting/exercise adventures started when I was 13 and overheard a female relative tell my mother that I was getting fat.
3. Since then, I've tried numerous diets and exercise plans. To avoid a massive word dump in my initial post, I did not go into painful detail about each one--intuitive eating, fasting, high protein, etc. I would be happy to share more detailed experiences with anyone who'd like to know more about them.
4. My two-month "lucky" weight loss came from pulling everything I knew together into a package that works--for me. If what I learned can help others who are struggling with NoS, be it vanilla or any other aspect--all the better!
5. I still am a work-in-progress. A "during." I'd like to keep improving my approach, eventually refining it, plus come up with a doable strength routine that I can incorporate into my life as easily as the 10K steps.

One thing that I noticed over the years of lurking here is that some successful NoS-ers reach their goals, then disappear. Nothing wrong with that, but in leaving, they also take away valuable help and information. How do they stay successful? Any setbacks? How do they handle setbacks?, etc. I decided that if I ever joined the forums, it would be AFTER I achieved most of my goals, so that I could offer advice that I know contributed to my success. The timing in my life now was right to start participating, hopefully helping others who may need or want it.

And that's why I'm here.

Welcome!

Thank you, vmsurbat!

I'm sorry you had an unpleasant interaction here -- on the whole, it's a pretty warm and welcoming place. I'm not quite sure what happened but please feel free to let me know privately if you'd like me to look into it without inevitable public escalation.

I am very happy you're here! And though it's great to read your commendable motivations, I wonder why anyone should wonder! Even the merely curious are more than welcome here, and you, of course, have a great deal to offer besides that.

Reinhard

Thank you, Reinhard!

I'm sorry you've had this experience Blessing..I am very glad you are here! The beauty of No S is making it work for you using the excellent guidelines as a starting point and then modifying if needed..that's why there is a whole sticky on Mods! We are all different and I think it says alot about Reinhard, of course he encourages the basic vanilla no s, but is always supportive of other ways of working this fantastic plan..he has no ego about only one way of doing No S.
You're input is very valued.

I'm so glad you're here, blessings!!! I love reading about your mod, heck I'm even trying it myself! You're dieting history sounds very similar to mine. When I was 13 ,my grandmother told me I was getting" fat as a hog.". I'm sorry you had a negative experience here on the forum. Don't leave.... You would be missed!

Thank you for your kind words, cedar and MaggieMae!

I have no plans on leaving--just wanted to give some more information to let others know that, even though I may have started at a normal BMI, I did (and still do) deal with similar issues. I'm definitely a "during," and gaining perspectives from others on how they handle life's curveballs, plus contributing where I'm able to help, is why I joined the forum.

Oh dear I'm so sorry to hear this. I've had similar reactions when Ive posted about wanting to stray a bit from vanilla or when I've expressed my desire to lose weight (rather than just focus on habits).

It's odd but I think some people are threatened by change or maybe they're afraid this will turn into a regular diet forum. There's more than enough room for more than one point of view though. Personally I have no interest in calorie counting so that part of NoS will always be important to me. I'd also like to get away from weighing myself but that's a personal goal.

It's unrealistic though to think that most people will be able to put their desire to lose weight completely aside so I always felt annoyed at getting attacked for honestly talking about that.

Anyway Im really enjoying having you on this forum and really happy you're planning to stay. I think you offer an important point of view. Your way of doing NoS may be just right for someone else whose struggling with vanilla NoS. If it helps somebody find a sane way of eating that's all that matters. As mentioned before I'm allowing a small piece of candy with each meal. To be honest, I may have been reluctant to share that before you came on here and shared your mod so thanks!

Finally, thank you for bringing this out in the open. I think this has happened to quite a few of us and its not acceptable. Hopefully this will put an end to it.

Linda

Ps I so relate to the family situation followed by years of dieting--ugh! :/

LifeisaBlessing wrote:I was a bit saddened and disappointed to inadvertently come across a post in the daily check in section from one of the veteran members of the forum who said it was "luck" that I lost the weight I wanted to so quickly, and even questioned why I'm here.

And that's why I'm here.

No one loses weight by luck. Weight is a consequence of energy in/energy out. That may occur for many reasons, but luck isn't one of them.

I look forward to reading your contributions. I need all the advice I can get.

I'm pretty sure it was I who offended you, and am mortified. I doubt any explanation I could give would suffice. I can't remember where I wrote that but am very willing to remove it.

Thanks, HoneyBeeNYC!

Oolala--No harm done! I'm glad to finally cyber-meet you--and seriously, you were one of the reasons I joined. I enjoyed reading the many experiences and perspectives you've provided over the years here. Feel free to ask me any questions.

I love your thread and mods, Lifeisablessing!

I've tried No S over the years and love the concept. However, since I can't seem to stick with it like I want to, I do think I need a mod. Yours sounds perfect.

I'd love to hear how your first few weeks were when you started? Did you find it difficult to skip snacking before or after dinner? Basically, I'm fine until the hours of 4-10pm. I really struggle during that time and I've tried EVERYTHING from walking to reading to painting my nails! I find that if I can get through a few days, I'm usually good for a few weeks or at least until the weekend. I like your mod because basically every day is the same...which I think would work well for me because I'm a creature of habit.

Last question, what do you do at a restaurant when the appetizer or dessert isn't served at the same time as the meal?

thanks for your posts!

Hi and thank you, moderatemeals! I tried NoS before also, but found that the weekends were a bit out of control for me. This time around, I came up with the sweet and/or snack mod within the meal, and honestly, that has been the ticket!

To answer your first question, my challenging times were also afternoon and evening. The first few weeks were definitely an adjustment when handling hunger, but my motivation was very high because I was soooo tired of dealing with the same issue of losing body fat. Whenever I would get really hungry, I reminded myself that my body had plenty of fat weight it could dive into if necessary to tide me over! As an example, I started at roughly 123 pounds, 25% body fat. That's 31 pounds of pure fat! Knowing that was all it took to get me to not eat between meals.

For the second question, I "make room" on my plate for the appetizer before dinner, and the dessert after dinner. This includes anything from the bread basket. I never count the salad as part of the plate if it's mostly lettuce, greens, and veggies--that can be eaten in addition to the plate. If the salad includes more items like cheese, eggs, or meat, I count it as part of my plate and make room accordingly.

To make it clearer, I'll use a real life illustration: a few weeks ago, we went out to a local family-owned Italian restaurant for a graduation party. The group decided to get several appetizers--fried zucchini, fried cheese sticks, and fried calamari. There was also the delicious selection of homemade breads in the bread basket. This restaurant is noted for its fantastic desserts, too, so dessert was a sure thing. I ordered the small plate of homemade spaghetti for my "main" course, plus a fresh greens salad. I had one small roll, a piece of fried zucchini, and one cheese stick (not a fan of calamari lol). When dinner came, the "small" order of spaghetti took up almost an entire normal-sized plate. I ate roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of it (packed the rest to go home). For dessert, I ordered the lemon cream cake. I ate about 1/2 of that, taking the remainder home. At the end of the meal, I felt satisfied, not bloated, and enjoyed everything in moderation.

LifeisaBlessing wrote:Hi and thank you, moderatemeals! I tried NoS before also, but found that the weekends were a bit out of control for me. This time around, I came up with the sweet and/or snack mod within the meal, and honestly, that has been the ticket!

To answer your first question, my challenging times were also afternoon and evening. The first few weeks were definitely an adjustment when handling hunger, but my motivation was very high because I was soooo tired of dealing with the same issue of losing body fat. Whenever I would get really hungry, I reminded myself that my body had plenty of fat weight it could dive into if necessary to tide me over! As an example, I started at roughly 123 pounds, 25% body fat. That's 31 pounds of pure fat! Knowing that was all it took to get me to not eat between meals.

For the second question, I "make room" on my plate for the appetizer before dinner, and the dessert after dinner. This includes anything from the bread basket. I never count the salad as part of the plate if it's mostly lettuce, greens, and veggies--that can be eaten in addition to the plate. If the salad includes more items like cheese, eggs, or meat, I count it as part of my plate and make room accordingly.

To make it clearer, I'll use a real life illustration: a few weeks ago, we went out to a local family-owned Italian restaurant for a graduation party. The group decided to get several appetizers--fried zucchini, fried cheese sticks, and fried calamari. There was also the delicious selection of homemade breads in the bread basket. This restaurant is noted for its fantastic desserts, too, so dessert was a sure thing. I ordered the small plate of homemade spaghetti for my "main" course, plus a fresh greens salad. I had one small roll, a piece of fried zucchini, and one cheese stick (not a fan of calamari lol). When dinner came, the "small" order of spaghetti took up almost an entire normal-sized plate. I ate roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of it (packed the rest to go home). For dessert, I ordered the lemon cream cake. I ate about 1/2 of that, taking the remainder home. At the end of the meal, I felt satisfied, not bloated, and enjoyed everything in moderation.

You are quite welcome, Life. (for short, hope you don't mind. You can call me Honey. If you want.)

About what the other person said, sometimes things come thru on the 'net that don't sound quite right, and they didn't mean it that way. So please don't take it the wrong when when I point out that some of your 31 pounds of fat is as necessary as your lung tissue, your bone tissue and your tendons and ligaments and fasciia. In other words, you need that stuff, so don't count it. I say this because it took me MANY years to accept the fat that some fat is good for you. I grew up in a ridiculously fat-phobic environment. Sigh.

For women, particularly, some hip and thigh fat are absolutely necessary. Your hip & thigh fat stores a kind of fat called DHA, which aids in the development of a baby's brain. Even if you don't have them, nature made it this way.

I have a weird suggestion for the tough times. In fact I might start a thread on it. I haven't been on No S for long, but it worked when I was starving, so why not try it for No S.

Role play. Imagine you are someone else. When I used to starve, I imagined that I was a ballerina as I chewed my five nuts washed down with a quart of water. I was nuts.

Now, I think of a small, slim Vietnamese woman I encountered at a 4th of July party many years ago. Us big fat Yanks chowed down like there was no tomorrow. (I'm not criticizing - this was a fun feast, just saying.) The tiny Vietnamese woman took small portions of everything and ate "an elegant sufficiency" and that was that. I think of her now, when I am tempted to eat my usual huge portions. Now, I'm bigger than she is, but not twice her size. I can add 10% to my Vietnamese lady portion size. Not 100%.

Perhaps you know someone who eats "an elegant sufficiency" and puts the fork down. Pretend you are her. That raging appetite might quiet down.

Just a suggestion!!

HoneyBeeNYC wrote:... some of your 31 pounds of fat is as necessary as your lung tissue, your bone tissue and your tendons and ligaments and fasciia. In other words, you need that stuff, so don't count it.

Hi Honey! And I'm fine with "Life" too lol. I should have clarified a bit further when I was discussing the 31 pounds. I definitely agree with you that some of that is necessary. Checking in with what is considered "essential" fat for females, there are ranges from 8%-12%, and some at 10%-13%. I'll use 13% as a conservative estimate. At 123 pounds, that means 16 fat pounds is considered necessary for everything you mentioned above. That still leaves 15 pounds of fat to draw upon when hungry--that's still a lot of fat!

I like your example of the tiny Vietnamese lady, and how you model how she ate.

Congratulations on your weight loss. Keep reaching fr those goals!

LifeisaBlessing wrote:

HoneyBeeNYC wrote:... some of your 31 pounds of fat is as necessary as your lung tissue, your bone tissue and your tendons and ligaments and fasciia. In other words, you need that stuff, so don't count it.

Hi Honey! And I'm fine with "Life" too lol. I should have clarified a bit further when I was discussing the 31 pounds. I definitely agree with you that some of that is necessary. Checking in with what is considered "essential" fat for females, there are ranges from 8%-12%, and some at 10%-13%. I'll use 13% as a conservative estimate. At 123 pounds, that means 16 fat pounds is considered necessary for everything you mentioned above. That still leaves 15 pounds of fat to draw upon when hungry--that's still a lot of fat!

I like your example of the tiny Vietnamese lady, and how you model how she ate.

Hi Life,

"accept the fat that some fat is good for you. " //cackle// didn't catch the mistake, and I'm not changing it. //cackleoff//

Glad to be of help. I often wonder why that memory is such a standout. It was something like 35 years ago....alas.

I think because the Vietnamese lady was just being herself and not gripping the steering wheel omigod can i eat this, etc. She was so satisfied with a plate that wasn't heaped sky high, where you could see gaps between the food portions. I'll never forget her enjoyment of the moderate amount of food she was eating while everyone else was food orgy-ing.

I doubt she weighed more than 100 pounds altogether and my LBM alone is (or was) 109 pounds. So I can eat more. But I can emulate her manner.

Thanks, Over43!

And lol, Honey, at that typo!!! And I didn't even catch it the first time.

It's funny, before finding success with my NoS mods, I've often thought (over my many years of dieting) that one of the most effective ways to get thin would be if you could invisibly follow thin people around all day, watching what and how much they ate. Being invisible would be necessary because when people know they're being observed, they may act or do things differently than they normally would, so you might not get a true picture of their eating behavior.

It would be interesting, after observing many thin people, to compare the results of what you learned from each one. Did they habitually just eat at meals? Not indulge in dessert? Just have everything in moderation? Eat "clean"? It certainly would be an enlightening experiment!

LifeisaBlessing wrote:Thanks, Over43!

And lol, Honey, at that typo!!! And I didn't even catch it the first time.

It's funny, before finding success with my NoS mods, I've often thought (over my many years of dieting) that one of the most effective ways to get thin would be if you could invisibly follow thin people around all day, watching what and how much they ate. Being invisible would be necessary because when people know they're being observed, they may act or do things differently than they normally would, so you might not get a true picture of their eating behavior.

It would be interesting, after observing many thin people, to compare the results of what you learned from each one. Did they habitually just eat at meals? Not indulge in dessert? Just have everything in moderation? Eat "clean"? It certainly would be an enlightening experiment!

Yes, it would be interesting. Of course, some thin people do the eating clean/orthorexia thing, but I'm not interested in them. I'm interested in the one who do not limit their diets and eat "clean". They ate the usual but in moderate (or smallish) portions. No bingeing (I never know whether to spell it binging or bingeing), no starving.

But what's also interesting is how this plays out on a societal level. Through this website I learned about the book by the 1950s vintage freak, Averyl Hill I forget the exact name of the book but it's something like American Women Did Not Get Fat In the 1950s. That's true. But not all was so great then. One, 60% of white women and 80% of black women smoked. Two, the expectations for a certain kind of pearls and twinsets femininity were so extreme. There were many sticks as well as carrots in those days. We can't go back to that.

And - most important - the choices were not there. I remember as far back as the mid-60s and there simply were not as many tempting choices. They were not selling candy underneath the pharmacy counter then. No.

HoneyBeeNYC wrote:[
Perhaps you know someone who eats "an elegant sufficiency" and puts the fork down. Pretend you are her. That raging appetite might quiet down.

Just a suggestion!!

this gave me chills. I imagine a sophisticated Parisienne, sitting cross legged (double crossing at the ankle, of course) and chatting with a girlfriend. Fork poised...pause to laugh...put fork in mouth...savor. Put fork down. Sip coffee and smile at friend. Gossip.

The food is part of the enjoyment, but not the entirety of it.

wow.

That's a great visual, buns of aluminum! Love that name,btw! I will imagine that I am that perfectly stylish sophisticate at a French cafe. Great idea, honey bee!

HoneyBeeNYC wrote:

LifeisaBlessing wrote:Thanks, Over43!

And lol, Honey, at that typo!!! And I didn't even catch it the first time.

It's funny, before finding success with my NoS mods, I've often thought (over my many years of dieting) that one of the most effective ways to get thin would be if you could invisibly follow thin people around all day, watching what and how much they ate. Being invisible would be necessary because when people know they're being observed, they may act or do things differently than they normally would, so you might not get a true picture of their eating behavior.

It would be interesting, after observing many thin people, to compare the results of what you learned from each one. Did they habitually just eat at meals? Not indulge in dessert? Just have everything in moderation? Eat "clean"? It certainly would be an enlightening experiment!

Yes, it would be interesting. Of course, some thin people do the eating clean/orthorexia thing, but I'm not interested in them. I'm interested in the one who do not limit their diets and eat "clean". They ate the usual but in moderate (or smallish) portions. No bingeing (I never know whether to spell it binging or bingeing), no starving.

i was like that up untill around the age of 35... naturally thin, even skinny... in teenage years i was even really trying to put on some weight, forcing myself to eat more than i could and extra fat... it never worked... or was wearing multiple layers of tights under my miniskirt to make my legs look more "normal"... when i was becoming vegetarian at 17 for ethical reasons, my only fear was that i might become even skinnier... but i didnt... in my 20s i just didnt think anymore about how i look... well, the weight aspect of it... then i got a lot of weight in pregnancy, i was eating for 4... i was sooo hungry! but then after the childbirth i lost all of it and more (i again kindof became a bit too skinny) in less than a year without slightest hint of effort... i was breastfeeding (longer than normal for today's society) and eating healthier by then because i was making sure to feed my son well... but i relaxed even that as he was growing...

i was eating normal to big size meals, usually 3... for sure not small portions... i was always full after a meal... and it was almost always homemade, because other options were not so available... not caring at all about how balanced or healthy it was... it just kindof on average - was!

i munched when i could, popcorn, pumpkin seeds (in the shell) chestnuts in autumn, cookies and pies, if someone made them...im not much into making nor eating cakes... baking was once a week at most (on sundays, usually)... but actually there was not so much snacking, people would normally take a piece of fruit, but since i was never sooo much into fruits i'd just pass... sweets and processed foods were MUCH more expensive and less available... desserts was somthing people ate at restaurants and weddings... and we didnt go often to restaurants nor weddings... then, chicken nuggets or fish fingers were a delicacy my mum would get us once a month if we were lucky... now they are one of the cheapest foods in the supermarket... and so often on children's plates... croissants for breakfast also felt like a feast... after i left home in my student years i just never had such things... takeaway - nonexistant... fast food - rare because too expensive to eat with any sort of regularity, even when i moved to switzerland... so, yes, i would feel hungry sometimes when in the city and cant afford to eat something immediately, (plus the stalls were not at every 20meters) and have to wait to come back home to get food...

i think for me - being active, not owning a car, dancing, theatre etc. and having a great metabolism when i was younger played a big role... but i totally agree that availability of poor eating choices makes such a big difference in one's life...

there is some wisdom in the saying - "out of sight - out of mind"...
the society or food bussinesses are not making it easy for us... but at least we can do little things to protect us... like noS...
and not having sweets at home... most of the times...
but that is just me...
we are all so different...

bunsofaluminum wrote:

HoneyBeeNYC wrote:[
Perhaps you know someone who eats "an elegant sufficiency" and puts the fork down. Pretend you are her. That raging appetite might quiet down.

Just a suggestion!!

this gave me chills. I imagine a sophisticated Parisienne, sitting cross legged (double crossing at the ankle, of course) and chatting with a girlfriend. Fork poised...pause to laugh...put fork in mouth...savor. Put fork down. Sip coffee and smile at friend. Gossip.

The food is part of the enjoyment, but not the entirety of it.

wow.

Glad it helped people. I'm more of a Sophia Loren, ca. 1957. Because that ballerina thing really did a number on my head.

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BP9YY6/sophia- ... BP9YY6.jpg

How has your summer been?

Hi oolala--I wasn't sure if you were asking about my summer or someone else's on the thread lol, but my summer has been great! I've been working on refining my approach to modified NoS, and I noticed that adjusting protein levels specifically has been nothing short of amazing in terms of positive body response--better fat loss, more satiety, etc. I'm very interested in the results of your experiment also--it seems like you're discovering a personal trend toward less food overall?

I can't remember who I asked, but glad to have any answer. Yeah, I'm moving toward less food, but it's not a happy change. I'd rather have my appetite back.

But enjoy your protein and the rest of what's on your plate!

oolala said,

"I'm moving toward less food, but it's not a happy change. I'd rather have my appetite back."


What's happened to your appetite? Personally, I would be happy with a lesser one, that is, as long as it wasn't from illness.

I've written a lot about it. I'll just say that hunger is almost gone, but desire isn't. It feels like I am holding back, as if I"m on a diet, almost all the time. I'm not often at peace when I eat and when I don't. I'm actually tired of trying to figure it out. I've been doing systematic mods for about 8 months and nothing's different. I'm just accepting that it is how it is for now.

oolala, I keep forgetting to read the daily journals of others. I read up on yours, and appreciate the insights from you and other posters. I wish you answers to good health.

Thank you, Noni. I feel very lucky to have such a warm community here.

bunsofaluminum wrote:

HoneyBeeNYC wrote:[
Perhaps you know someone who eats "an elegant sufficiency" and puts the fork down. Pretend you are her. That raging appetite might quiet down.

Just a suggestion!!

this gave me chills. I imagine a sophisticated Parisienne, sitting cross legged (double crossing at the ankle, of course) and chatting with a girlfriend. Fork poised...pause to laugh...put fork in mouth...savor. Put fork down. Sip coffee and smile at friend. Gossip.

The food is part of the enjoyment, but not the entirety of it.

wow.

This post reminds me of the book "French Women Don't Get Fat".