Today is a red day for me.
I totally blew it at lunchtime - as close to an all-out binge as I've had in a while. Standard triggers... multiple random small disappointments, plus having to sit next to food-I-couldn't have all morning (and even provide some of it - one of those social situations).
At lunch, I cracked. I ate 3 cookies and 3 slices of pumpkin bread (which is really a sweet), in addition to a regular lunch. Four hours later, I still feel stuffed.
I stopped myself then, and thought about the day thus far. And really, this event is a social thing that happens once a month, where people WILL bring food (it's even assigned) and perhaps it should just be an S? And I think it may be in the future.
But it's not an S today, it's a failure. And the difference is that I didn't consciously CHOOSE in advance that "this is worth being an S-day," I just cracked. It feels different. Though both the cookies and the pumpkin bread were good, I ate mostly because I was unhappy and stressed and disappointed. After the first cookie, it was "blown it anyway" thinking in action. All of that adds up to failure.
The only good part is that it's now contained. The day is red because of lunchtime... but the remainder of the day would be green if I counted in smaller increments. Plus I did go exercise, as planned, even though it was a bit uncomfortable because I was so full.
The red day is not over, but I am over the failure... in part, because I recognized its nature and called it by name.
The difference between red and yellow...
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NoelFigart
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Re: The difference between red and yellow...
Shaking it off and going on is good. Congrats on that.KCCC wrote:The red day is not over, but I am over the failure... in part, because I recognized its nature and called it by name.
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gratefuldeb67
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Great reasoning here KCCC, good for you!!
I totally rebelled against the "F word" for the first years, but that was because of all the unnecessary ego baggage attached to that word and because I felt it would actually psych me out.
But I am quite happy to call failures failures these days and find much more comfort in the stark honesty I am using with myself.. I no longer have any negative connotations with the word anymore. It's simply accurate feedback as describing whether I was or wasn't on target with the rules here.
I much prefer an honest red mark on habitcal than an ambiguous yellow one where I am not only fudging the record by not really owning up to myself, but also not learning anything about my true eating patterns.
How can one improve if they never see what they are doing?
Sorry that was so long. I think this is a pivotal experience in turning failures into successes.. accept them and just pick yourself up and brush yerself off and start over again
Love
Debs
I totally rebelled against the "F word" for the first years, but that was because of all the unnecessary ego baggage attached to that word and because I felt it would actually psych me out.
But I am quite happy to call failures failures these days and find much more comfort in the stark honesty I am using with myself.. I no longer have any negative connotations with the word anymore. It's simply accurate feedback as describing whether I was or wasn't on target with the rules here.
I much prefer an honest red mark on habitcal than an ambiguous yellow one where I am not only fudging the record by not really owning up to myself, but also not learning anything about my true eating patterns.
How can one improve if they never see what they are doing?
Sorry that was so long. I think this is a pivotal experience in turning failures into successes.. accept them and just pick yourself up and brush yerself off and start over again
Love
DebsThere is no Wisdom greater than Kindness
Yup, same here. I am slowly realizing - on an emotional as well as an intellectual level - that acknowledging it is the first step to dealing.gratefuldeb67 wrote: I totally rebelled against the "F word" for the first years, but that was because of all the unnecessary ego baggage attached to that word and because I felt it would actually psych me out.
It's a good lesson, and one that has value for more areas of life than No S.
I do think it is a sign of maturity to be able to handle the (7 letter) "F word" (congratulations, Deb!), but for those of you who are not quite there yet, "Red" is a pretty good substitute. Just as clear, without the potentially destructive baggage.
Great catch though, in the absence of such a tool!
I find that my resolution to fess up the details of any failures on the board here is hugely helpful in keeping them limited. There may not be any systematic quantification for double or triple failures, but there's a world of difference between having to recount an impressive recovery or a total route.
Reinhard
Maybe we need a habit clock, or habit timesheetThe only good part is that it's now contained. The day is red because of lunchtime... but the remainder of the day would be green if I counted in smaller increments.
Great catch though, in the absence of such a tool!
I find that my resolution to fess up the details of any failures on the board here is hugely helpful in keeping them limited. There may not be any systematic quantification for double or triple failures, but there's a world of difference between having to recount an impressive recovery or a total route.
Reinhard
Nope, would raise the "attention bar" too high. The Daily Check In covers the need for detail, at least for me.reinhard wrote:
Maybe we need a habit clock, or habit timesheet
But you're right that reporting it here does help with containment. I'd so much rather report "I slipped, but caught myself" than "I've been on a total bender and can't seem to quit." And the habit of "catching early" is getting stronger over time, I've noticed.
One of my favorite books-read-when-young is the EarthSea Trilogy, by Ursula Le Guin. It's a fantasy series, in which the magical system is based around the notion that "to name a thing (with its real name) is to know it." The Wizards exert control through knowing/recognizing a thing's real name.
I think there's some truth to that in the real world - language is powerful, the "stories we tell ourselves" are powerful. Learning to look failure in the face and move on involves first knowing it for what it is. "Marra, I see you," as the Buddhists would say. (Marra is sort of like the Christian devil, a personification of the forces that tempt you from the way that you know is right. In a number of teaching stories, merely recognizing Marra causes it to flee.)
I also liked your advice to Noel:
That is very useful. If it's not in your last book, make sure it's in your next.If you want to be tough, direct that toughness towards the future, towards present compliance. Being tough on your past self (which can't fight back) is just bullying.
I'm taking a different approach because I can't handle failure. I've had way too much of failure on diets. I have an accumulation of two Special Days to be used each month.
Right now, it is 4 1/2 hours until midnight. I can eat what I want if I use of one of my four precious Special Days. No thanks.
I have the option.
Kathleen
Right now, it is 4 1/2 hours until midnight. I can eat what I want if I use of one of my four precious Special Days. No thanks.
I have the option.
Kathleen
one man's ceiling
I think it's amazing to call three cookies and three slices of pumpkin bread an all-out binge. But, no matter what you call it, congrats on moving on and responding later only to your hunger.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Re: one man's ceiling
Oolala, I don't think it's the amount that made it feel like a binge as much as the attitude with which it was eaten - almost inhaled, no real enjoyment, lots of guilt. A real feeling of "I shouldn't." No connection between my body's needs and what I was doing. As someone here once said, packing in the calories before the guilt set in. (Though, if you'd seen those almost fist-sized cookies, the amount might qualify as well. My stomach was NOT pleased with me.)oolala53 wrote:I think it's amazing to call three cookies and three slices of pumpkin bread an all-out binge. But, no matter what you call it, congrats on moving on and responding later only to your hunger.
Kathleen, I think your system is a very creative and thoughtful solution. If you'd been on the boards when I was first starting, I would probably have copied you! The whole idea of "failure" was SUCH a stopper at first for me too. Your system would have really lowered the stress around that, and one reason I'm glad you're on the boards now is because you provide an alternative for other people who are derailed by the harshness of the term.
But since you weren't - and I wasn't clever enough to think of it myself - I slowly came to terms with the "seven letter F-word." Still don't love it, but am sort of proud of being able to FACE it, just because getting to that place was a struggle. (Hence this post.)
It's nice that there are multiple paths that work on No-S, isn't it?
KCCC,
It's not that I wouldn't have been able to face failure so much as I would not have told myself it is a failure.
As a mother, I have all sorts of reasons to turn an N Day into an S Day. That's why the title of your thread was so intriguing to me. When is there a clearcut difference? I've only taken two Special Days since I started two months ago. One was my birthday (clearcut). One was going out for treats to celebrate our son making Star rank in Scouts (not so clearcut).
What thrills me is that my daughter (14 years old, 5'5" tall, and about 150 pounds) has decided to join me in this diet, and now she is sharing her successes with me.
I agree with you, KCCC, that people are different. I'm very adept at justifying behavior and enough of a perfectionist that I think one failure would end the diet, so the accumulation of two Special Days per month works for me. I feel calmer knowing that it is not possible for me to fail on this diet until I use up all my Special Days. I have accumulated four at this point, so that means I coudn't fail until Friday of next week.
I was always one bite away from failure when I was on diets, especially the diets where I was following rules around where to eat (at the table) and how to eat (like sitting down, chewing each bite 10 times). That's my history, and it is evident in how I am eating on S Days.
I just finished bathing, and I had a Haagen Dazs bar in the bathtub! What's not to love about a diet where you can have a Haagen Dazs bar in the bathtub at 6 in the morning?! For me, the diet is all about being able to break the old diet rules, so clearcut rules on what days are Special Days is critical.
Kathleen
It's not that I wouldn't have been able to face failure so much as I would not have told myself it is a failure.
As a mother, I have all sorts of reasons to turn an N Day into an S Day. That's why the title of your thread was so intriguing to me. When is there a clearcut difference? I've only taken two Special Days since I started two months ago. One was my birthday (clearcut). One was going out for treats to celebrate our son making Star rank in Scouts (not so clearcut).
What thrills me is that my daughter (14 years old, 5'5" tall, and about 150 pounds) has decided to join me in this diet, and now she is sharing her successes with me.
I agree with you, KCCC, that people are different. I'm very adept at justifying behavior and enough of a perfectionist that I think one failure would end the diet, so the accumulation of two Special Days per month works for me. I feel calmer knowing that it is not possible for me to fail on this diet until I use up all my Special Days. I have accumulated four at this point, so that means I coudn't fail until Friday of next week.
I was always one bite away from failure when I was on diets, especially the diets where I was following rules around where to eat (at the table) and how to eat (like sitting down, chewing each bite 10 times). That's my history, and it is evident in how I am eating on S Days.
I just finished bathing, and I had a Haagen Dazs bar in the bathtub! What's not to love about a diet where you can have a Haagen Dazs bar in the bathtub at 6 in the morning?! For me, the diet is all about being able to break the old diet rules, so clearcut rules on what days are Special Days is critical.
Kathleen
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NoelFigart
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Kathleen, I'm also a parent, so I get the S-day thing.
If it's important to your child that you share a treat to celebrate a big accomplishment, sure, do it! If the child doesn't notice if you're making it an S day or not, it's probably not a big enough deal to make it an S day. That's going to vary from child to child, but certainly Star rank is REALLY COOL and deserves recognition from you whether or not you change what YOU eat because of it.
If it's important to your child that you share a treat to celebrate a big accomplishment, sure, do it! If the child doesn't notice if you're making it an S day or not, it's probably not a big enough deal to make it an S day. That's going to vary from child to child, but certainly Star rank is REALLY COOL and deserves recognition from you whether or not you change what YOU eat because of it.
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gratefuldeb67
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s
Hahahahah!!! Brilliant!!!!Kathleen wrote:
I just finished bathing, and I had a Haagen Dazs bar in the bathtub!
Why *not* combine two of Life's nicest treats!
I hear that chocolate is good for your skin.
There is no Wisdom greater than Kindness
defining intent
KCCC,
You are so right about the fine points of what constitutes a binge (although I'm not sure, say, one inhaled bag of M & M's would rate that). It proves again the power of the overeating habit, since it isn't as if any of us are deprived on this program. Certainly, too-strict of limitations on calories or food types can lead to bingeing, but even wise moderation doesn't cure it completely, although it certainly does help to put non-moderation in focus. The great thing about this program is its emphasis on seeing these experiences as all part of the process of deconstructing and rebuilding a habit, and not as a reason to berate our moral character. Reinhard may have had an advantage in the beginning of not being a multiple diet failure, so he had less of the tendency to beat himself up, but he certainly has a smart and tender attitude toward the disordered thinking habits a lot of us struggle with as much as we do with food. Although it may sound hackneyed, it really is an inside job. What I like here is the combination of consciously chipping away at the thinking and the the almost unconscious visceral experiences of hunger, eating, and satiety that work together to change us. Some of us need a little more of the former, some the latter, but the end result is about the same: peace.
You are so right about the fine points of what constitutes a binge (although I'm not sure, say, one inhaled bag of M & M's would rate that). It proves again the power of the overeating habit, since it isn't as if any of us are deprived on this program. Certainly, too-strict of limitations on calories or food types can lead to bingeing, but even wise moderation doesn't cure it completely, although it certainly does help to put non-moderation in focus. The great thing about this program is its emphasis on seeing these experiences as all part of the process of deconstructing and rebuilding a habit, and not as a reason to berate our moral character. Reinhard may have had an advantage in the beginning of not being a multiple diet failure, so he had less of the tendency to beat himself up, but he certainly has a smart and tender attitude toward the disordered thinking habits a lot of us struggle with as much as we do with food. Although it may sound hackneyed, it really is an inside job. What I like here is the combination of consciously chipping away at the thinking and the the almost unconscious visceral experiences of hunger, eating, and satiety that work together to change us. Some of us need a little more of the former, some the latter, but the end result is about the same: peace.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
NoelFigart,
OK, what I like about this diet is what I can do and actually enjoy! I have taken the kids out for treats without having anything myself so I did keep the day green for me. My youngest has had a medical problem which, without going into it, has required a lot of effort on her part, and she got to choose a treat -- a Wendy's Frosty -- which was for her alone as a reward for all her work. I took her, and I had a cup of coffee.
I think it's part of human nature to celebrate and to reward yorself with food, and this whole trend towards eating only when hungry totally disregards the social and self-indulgent aspects of eating. I read somewhere recently that you should always ask yourself it is really necessary for you to be eating this particular food. Well, I've got a clear cut answer. No, it is not necessary for me to be eating a Haagen Dazs bar in the bathtub at 6 in the morning. Any effort towards following the 3S guidelines is worth the enjoyment of a Haagen Dazs bar in such a clearly self-indulgent way!
Kathleen
OK, what I like about this diet is what I can do and actually enjoy! I have taken the kids out for treats without having anything myself so I did keep the day green for me. My youngest has had a medical problem which, without going into it, has required a lot of effort on her part, and she got to choose a treat -- a Wendy's Frosty -- which was for her alone as a reward for all her work. I took her, and I had a cup of coffee.
I think it's part of human nature to celebrate and to reward yorself with food, and this whole trend towards eating only when hungry totally disregards the social and self-indulgent aspects of eating. I read somewhere recently that you should always ask yourself it is really necessary for you to be eating this particular food. Well, I've got a clear cut answer. No, it is not necessary for me to be eating a Haagen Dazs bar in the bathtub at 6 in the morning. Any effort towards following the 3S guidelines is worth the enjoyment of a Haagen Dazs bar in such a clearly self-indulgent way!
Kathleen
Yes, that's the mechanism exactly - I recognize it all too well. (I consider myself a "recovering perfectionist" - like a recovering anything, always have to watch it sneaking up on me.)Kathleen wrote:KCCC,
It's not that I wouldn't have been able to face failure so much as I would not have told myself it is a failure.
...
I agree with you, KCCC, that people are different. I'm very adept at justifying behavior and enough of a perfectionist that I think one failure would end the diet...
I'm glad your system works so well for you (and I suspect other people too). I like it. It's a gentler approach than what I ended up doing, and I'm all for gentle when at all possible.
At this point, keeping up with "how many reserve S days do I have" is more than I want to track. But I'll certainly keep the idea in mind if I need another approach.
It's good to have "a big toolbox!"KCCC,
During a year when I could not work and my kids were in school, I spent a lot of time doing research on diets and reaching back in my own life to memories of situations whic would have to be addressed by any diet that would work for me. One memory I have is of a woman who turned down cake at her own going-away party for work.
I believed that "perfect compliance" was necessary in order for a diet of mine to work, and I thought it had to do with perfectionism. Reinhard, in his book, got to the reason that I now think "perfect compliance" is so important. It has to do with developing habits. I now work five hours per day four days per week. I don't even think about food between breakfast at 6:30 and lunch at 2. Why? I don't tune into hunger at all.
Now, in thinking about a surprise going away party at work, how would it be defined in the diet in which you have to distinguish between S Days and N Days ahead of time? Would it be considered an N Day, and you turn down cake? Would you define on the spot that it is an S Day?
I read in someone's blog that a person couldn't figure out if it was an S Day or an N Day when a sister in law had wonderful cake.
With an accumulation of two days per month, you always have the choice to use a day. It's like having a budget for entertainment. You can spend it however you want.
I've enjoyed some pretty extravagent purchases, like a $140 rice cooker which I have used at least once per week since my 9 year old was three months old. I bought it on my last day of work because I stopped working so I could stay home with the kids.
Like with a budget, I don't have to justify my expenditures to anyone. Since my husband definitely classifies me as "cheap", he doesn't mind when I make purchase decisions like $140 for a rice cooker.
With the S Day budget, it's all mine to spend as I choose, even if I blow one day on a taste test at a grocery store. One of my other key memories of dieting is the incredible number of diets that were blown because I couldn't resist a taste test at a grocery store. I've seen some, and I've been tempted, but I've never wanted to blow an S Day on a taste test.
The diet is working for me. I'll be really happy to be down 10 pounds so we can celebrate as a family. The real benefit to me, however, is if my daughter loses weight. She's got a whole life ahead of her that would be a lot better than if she was dealing with weight.
Kathleen
During a year when I could not work and my kids were in school, I spent a lot of time doing research on diets and reaching back in my own life to memories of situations whic would have to be addressed by any diet that would work for me. One memory I have is of a woman who turned down cake at her own going-away party for work.
I believed that "perfect compliance" was necessary in order for a diet of mine to work, and I thought it had to do with perfectionism. Reinhard, in his book, got to the reason that I now think "perfect compliance" is so important. It has to do with developing habits. I now work five hours per day four days per week. I don't even think about food between breakfast at 6:30 and lunch at 2. Why? I don't tune into hunger at all.
Now, in thinking about a surprise going away party at work, how would it be defined in the diet in which you have to distinguish between S Days and N Days ahead of time? Would it be considered an N Day, and you turn down cake? Would you define on the spot that it is an S Day?
I read in someone's blog that a person couldn't figure out if it was an S Day or an N Day when a sister in law had wonderful cake.
With an accumulation of two days per month, you always have the choice to use a day. It's like having a budget for entertainment. You can spend it however you want.
I've enjoyed some pretty extravagent purchases, like a $140 rice cooker which I have used at least once per week since my 9 year old was three months old. I bought it on my last day of work because I stopped working so I could stay home with the kids.
Like with a budget, I don't have to justify my expenditures to anyone. Since my husband definitely classifies me as "cheap", he doesn't mind when I make purchase decisions like $140 for a rice cooker.
With the S Day budget, it's all mine to spend as I choose, even if I blow one day on a taste test at a grocery store. One of my other key memories of dieting is the incredible number of diets that were blown because I couldn't resist a taste test at a grocery store. I've seen some, and I've been tempted, but I've never wanted to blow an S Day on a taste test.
The diet is working for me. I'll be really happy to be down 10 pounds so we can celebrate as a family. The real benefit to me, however, is if my daughter loses weight. She's got a whole life ahead of her that would be a lot better than if she was dealing with weight.
Kathleen
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blueskighs
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And when you do it with such panache Kathleen, my goodness, you are an inspiration to us all!What's not to love about a diet where you can have a Haagen Dazs bar in the bathtub at 6 in the morning?!
very well put, Oolala,the process of deconstructing and rebuilding a habit
Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey
Kathleen,
I've been pondering your post (whilst recovering from my cold). I think you've hit on the real key element - choice. That's what my "ahead of time" is all about, I see now. When I consciously choose "yes, this is worth an S day and I have decided to take one," it's SO different from "I shouldn't be eating this but I am."
For me, deciding ahead of time works to isolate that choice. I don't choose particularly well "in the moment," I've learned.
However, I don't mandate "a day ahead" or "two days ahead" or any particular timeline. In the case of a surprise party, I'd probably take an S. My life has not included a such a situation, or any thus far where I couldn't decide well ahead, so I hadn't given it the same level of consideration as you have. As long as I mentally reviewed my choices before I actually began to eat and was eating with "informed consent" (to use a phrase from work), it would be fine.
I think my original post was also about not granting myself retroactive S-days, even if the damage wasn't that severe. I need to acknowledge and learn from the times when I inhale food as if I'm trying to evade an authority (my own wiser self), and that starts with admitting that "that was a red."
Thanks for really zeroing in on the REAL issue, which I think I was approaching but not identifying directly.
I've been pondering your post (whilst recovering from my cold). I think you've hit on the real key element - choice. That's what my "ahead of time" is all about, I see now. When I consciously choose "yes, this is worth an S day and I have decided to take one," it's SO different from "I shouldn't be eating this but I am."
For me, deciding ahead of time works to isolate that choice. I don't choose particularly well "in the moment," I've learned.
However, I don't mandate "a day ahead" or "two days ahead" or any particular timeline. In the case of a surprise party, I'd probably take an S. My life has not included a such a situation, or any thus far where I couldn't decide well ahead, so I hadn't given it the same level of consideration as you have. As long as I mentally reviewed my choices before I actually began to eat and was eating with "informed consent" (to use a phrase from work), it would be fine.
I think my original post was also about not granting myself retroactive S-days, even if the damage wasn't that severe. I need to acknowledge and learn from the times when I inhale food as if I'm trying to evade an authority (my own wiser self), and that starts with admitting that "that was a red."
Thanks for really zeroing in on the REAL issue, which I think I was approaching but not identifying directly.
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blueskighs
- Posts: 1787
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:11 am
- Location: California
Well put KCCC,For me, deciding ahead of time works to isolate that choice.
I find thats helpful to me too. And, although at the begining of the month I eye my calendar and map at my S days, if I have extras then I know that if my husband takes an unplanned vacation day or some such event that's special to me comes up, I can always say, hey, tomorrow, an S DAY!
Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey
KCCC,
The being-able-to-decide-in-the-moment is very reassuring to me. I am not "one bite" away from failure. It works for me, but I really like buffers. I like to have money in the bank to cover unexpected bills. I like to work part-time so I'm not in a panic if a kid needs to go to the doctor. I just like some leeway. That's why a budget of S Days works for me. It fits my personality.
Kathleen
The being-able-to-decide-in-the-moment is very reassuring to me. I am not "one bite" away from failure. It works for me, but I really like buffers. I like to have money in the bank to cover unexpected bills. I like to work part-time so I'm not in a panic if a kid needs to go to the doctor. I just like some leeway. That's why a budget of S Days works for me. It fits my personality.
Kathleen