accumulating multiple failed attempts..errr...experiences

[gingercake]

My first go at No-S was around May - coming off of several years of dieting during which I lost about 50 lbs. This is probably about the fifth time I'm coming back from a cycle of good No-S-ing, then some bad days, then freaking out and returning to counting and restricting, then realizing I'm miserable, then coming back to No-S and saying to myself that this it it, I'm never allowed to go back to the diet industry again.

Somewhere in the book Reinhard talks about studies showing that people need about 12 failures when starting a new habit before it sticks. I hope I don't need 12! I didn't realize when I started just how deeply ingrained the habits of dieting and diet thinking were etched. I am discovering that it takes about as much will power to NOT RESTRICT as it does to not binge. (Like Blueskighs, I have a history with BED.)

It's been a challenging year. I was really in the No-S zone for about a month and felt like all the pieces were coming together and I "got it" and was even seeing it in my habits during restaurant meals and parties and celebrations. Then I had to live away from home for 2 months and got back into binge eating for various reasons, then I got back and freaked out over weight gain and went back to restricting.

Now I'm ready again for that calm and happiness and sanity I experienced before. How long can I go this time without freaking out?? Time will tell! I guess it's a given I will freak out at some point, but I want to handle it differently.

[blueskighs]

I am discovering that it takes about as much will power to NOT RESTRICT as it does to not binge.

Gingercake,

It is good to hear from you. It is interesting, Kathleen has brought up why do some people start No S and then just "disappear". Of course, we all hope that their "disappearances" are because they are off living happy lives, free of food, diet, weight obsession and are just too damn busy to put in any time on the boards.

Since I have been nosing in March of this year and I ask people, hey what happened, it seems a popular response is not "failure" as much as I wasn't losing weight fast enough and went off and did a "traditional diet" to lose the weight and then I was going to come back and maintain except for most of the times they end up gaining weight.

FOR ME, RESTRICTING is as much a part of my binging eating disorder as my binging. Why? Because it is as much of an "escape" - counting calories, getting the high of quick[er] weight loss ... etc. is very addicting ... it is also as Reinhard so eloquently points out in his book unsustainable.

I don't think this idea of "restricting on a traditional diet to lose the weight" and THEN come back to No S seems to be successful for too many folks. That being said I think there are people who lost significant weight BEFORE NO S and use No S to keep it off.

But the point that you make is well-taken. NOT RESTRICTING for those of us who use dieting and restricting as a way to control the effects of our binging and/or as a process addiction to just avoid the emotional realities of our life is as hard to give up as binging/overeating I am learning.

Being a healthy, normal weight is not as exciting as the possibility of what we might become if we seriously restrict our food, nor does it allow for the free-for-all I don't give a damn serious indulgence of BINGING ... its just kind of a "nonsexy" middle of the road approach and you simlply have to look for your IDENTITY somewhere else ....

interesting stuff,
rambling thoughts,
glad you are here,

Blueskighs

[AnnaBanana]

Gingercake,

I'm one of those folks who started in the spring and have had several failed attempts at NoSing. I posted a time or two that I was back for good and decided I would be too embarassed yet ANOTHER time to say that.

But I believe wholeheartedly for some folks, maybe most, it takes us quite a few times of stopping and starting, going back to the insanity of restricting calories or carbs or fat grams, whatever our poison is, until we finally settle back into what truly works and makes us happy/not crazy.

MODERATION!

I think a lot of us disappear from the board, but we still come back and read. I'm on the third day of successful NoSing and I will never again say this is it or this is for good. What I'm doing instead is trying to build some sustainable habits. One day at a time.

I'm even getting rid of my gym membership and using the treadmill I have at home for bad weather and my neighborhood streets for the nice days and am going to start Shoveglove. Why you may ask? Because the only times I have ever been successful and happy was when I did things that were sustainable and livable and doable long-term. It is when I complicate things with fancy gym memberships that are too far away and too easy to just say I'm too busy to get to that day, and when my food choices are so restricted and limited that I can't even eat at a friend's house or out to eat with my family, that I fail.

I am a binger. I never binged until I started dieting. And then it became a visciouis cycle of restrict/binge/restrict/binge, until I was 100 lbs overweight.

I have a theory rolling around in my head that, at least for me, I purposely set myself up for failure. A diet that is too strict and a workout routine that is too brutal and time consuming is guaranteed to fail for me every time. So what I'm dealing with emotionally is why I do it and set myself up for failure every time.

Keep posting and I will too.

[gingercake]

LauraAnn and Blueskighs, thanks for your responses.

Sometimes when I disappear it IS because I'm purposely spending less time online and more living. But sometimes it is because I'm floundering and going back to the Dark Side.

Right now I am all about embracing unsexy moderation. Unsexy moderation! Unsexy moderation! I'd love to see an ad campaign like THAT.

BTW Blue - I've been working with a personal trainer and I gave him this big speech on our first session about how I didn't want to be measured and weighed. After building some trust, I finally allowed him to measure my body fat %. A big part of that was reading your blog and seeing how much that additional measure helps put things in perspective. Anyway, it wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm bumping up against the ceiling of the "acceptable" range, but I had envisioned some horrifying number, like...67% or something. lol.

LauraAnn - yes, sustainable and livable is where it's at. Must remember that!

[blueskighs]

Hey Gals,

for me working with a trainer is fun, but I could not have done it 10 or 20 years ago, in fact, about 15 years ago I did have a membership and it didn't pan out. what i am learning is the more that I bring to my working relationship with my personal trainer the better it is.

I think when I was younger I just didn't have the ability? to define what I needed in such a relationship. That is why I like your story, Gingercake, about initially not allowing any measurements to take place and then letting your relationship with your trainer evolve over time.

When I work with these young guys/ trainers at the gym I am kind of like OH MY GOSH what can they do to help me? But the more I "work with them" and let them know what I enjoy and want the better my training sessions are.

We change things up a lot and THAT is what I like. I have found for me I tend to get rut like and that is de-motivating in the long run. So I use my trainer to CHALLENGE me harder than I will challenge myself and to keep things "mixed up".

It is incredible that through this process I have been able to build a positive and enjoyable experince that I actually look forward to.

FOR ME, I am learning that ENJOYMENT is the key to sustainability, somewhere a while back on the boards someone mentioned Clarence Bass, I looked him up on the internet and bought about three of his books. The point he makes for fitness training is GUESS WHAT? you have to make it ENJOYABLE to keep doing it ... sounds familiar huh?

The reason I like focusing on bodyfat rather than just weight is it is much more challenging to reduce body fat than just lose weight. I know that SOOOOOOOO many people hate to go to the gym, I used to be one of those people too. But in the end, making it fun and finding a gym that suits your personality and temperament that is convenient can be a lot of fun ... and then of course, for some of us, once you get a taste of that body shaping iron pump, well you are hooked!

And OF COURSE the key is TO NOT OVEREXERCISE ... that is the death knell of any fitness program ... OVERTRAINING ... apparently "unsexy moderation" [thank you, Gingercake ] IS the key to long term success in just about .... EVERYTHING!!!!!!

Blueskighs

[gingercake]

I think when I was younger I just didn't have the ability? to define what I needed in such a relationship. That is why I like your story, Gingercake, about initially not allowing any measurements to take place and then letting your relationship with your trainer evolve over time.

Blueskighs

It's kind of like how therapy went for me when I first started. It took three sessions before I told him why I was REALLY there. You have to develop trust. I wouldn't have been able to do that ten years ago, either. I wouldn't have even signed up, let alone spoke up about what I wanted from it.

[oolala53]

Hi, folks, I'm just going to jump in here because multiple failures is up for me. I wish we knew for sure what was going to set us off. I think I have had only one or two N days out of the past 10 days of trying. I have had several successful S days! But I got the book from the library Saturday and listened to a couple of podcasts, so today I felt ready. I wasn't even hungry after lunch, but had a twinge of a gnawing feeling later, then walked in an office that had little bags of popcorn for free and I crunched away! Failed! Failed!

Actually, I don't feel terrible about it, but that scares me even more. I'm tired of having this hanging over my head. I have been interested in moderation, not just weight loss, for 25 years. I'm about 10 pounds over my highest acceptable BMI and about 20 from looking pretty darn good; Mostly, I keep thinking I don't want to be at the affect of food. But my actions don't match that. I realize now it was that "diet" mentality (and I have rarely been on a diet, per se) that said the popcorn would not mean I had eaten "too much" food today, even if I had a regular dinner. I have to realize it doesn't have to do with the calories as it does with the habit! Because of some exposure to the idea of intuitive eating, I have allowed myself for years to have all kinds of foods, but it never stuck not to eat when I wasn't hungry and stop when I was full. So NoS seems like the last chance to have any kind of sanity with regard to food. I think that's why it seems so IMPORTANT when I fail. If I fail at Atkins or carb cylcing or something, good for me! I'm never going to live like that anyway. But failing at this! A previous teacher left a sign in my room that said,"Too bad ignorance isn't painful." It is, but obviously, not enough. I mean the ignorance of not recognizing that I'll either be in pain until I surrender to this or until I decide that I'll never get this handled and I should just give up trying to do anything about it. Why torture myself? I can't imagine life that way, either. So, here I stay.

[gingercake]

Since starting this thread a few weeks ago, I've been doing really well. I feel like I'm back in the zone, and this past week especially started enjoying myself again...a feeling that OH-SO-SURPRISINGLY happened to coincide with when I stopped weighing myself. Huh. *sarcastic finger to cheek with puzzled look*

I still kind of hate S days right now and am trying some different approaches...I know it will get better.

[oolala53]

I had a few good days and then not, but I, too, am back in the groove. Even two N days in a row can make me feel that I am in the groove. I wish I didn't have to be in the groove, though. I need to be able to get past the times when it's hard to stay on track, but i do it anyway. Usually, I'll just go through a period of time when it's not much of a struggle. Then, the urges will start up and I will be pretty helpless against them. It sounds dangerous to depend on the urges not coming up. I do believe that if they come and I don't give in, they will fade, to some degree, but giving in is surely reinforcing them. Maybe I should design a habitcal version just for keeping track of WKN days: white knuckle days, so that I could have something that seemed to reward me separately. The green days are nice, but they don't mean the same when they come with little effort. I know that must sound crazy from someone who hasn't had one 5-day streak yet, but that's part of the reason I haven't had one. I may have one critical moment a day, or none, and then I'm okay. More than that, and I'm bouncing along the ground with the sound of the wagon getting farther and farther away...

[kccc]

Maybe I should design a habitcal version just for keeping track of WKN days: white knuckle days, so that I could have something that seemed to reward me separately.

I think that's a really good idea. And just thinking about "what is a (non-food) reward to me?" is a good exercise, one that puts you more in touch with yourself. (I speak from experience here!)

Also, I still find the "strictness" podcast inspiring and helpful. Maybe listen to it when you reach a WKM (white knuckle moment)?

Good luck, and hang in there! Every time you make the right choice, it gets easier to do it the next time (though there will always be bumps - you just get past them more gracefully).